Steve's unending Progress thread, Air compressor setup recommendations Options

[stephenaki]

Well, woke up to snow this morning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) So I cleared a path and pulled the bikes out then started work on the teener. Pulled both carbs and found the issue with the high idle. The accelerator pump connection was getting hung up and leaving the butterfly open. Fixed that and reset each carb back to pre-tune setup according to the Dellorto manual.

Tackled the shift linkage next and got that sorted out then tried to start her up. Well, looks like I need a new starter...dang. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Ran over to the Porsche dealer but this is Germany, they close early so at 1530 the SOBs were closed. My German neighbor is looking to see if she can find me someone who rebuilds starters but in the meantime I'll do a bit of a comparison to see who has the better price and can get it to me quicker online. Won't pull the trigger until Monday though; if I can't get a starter relatively quick and that's affordable here in Germany then I'll order it.

At least I know she runs, I just want to make sure I have found the cause of the high idle. Just when I think she is done...another issue pops up. Say la vie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Gint]

914's law.

[stephenaki]

914's law.

You're not helping here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Since I will have to pull the sucker anyway, I'll pull it this afternoon and bench test it. That way I am certain that it is the starter, don't want to spend money to replace something I don't have to.

[stephenaki]

OK, pulled the starter and battery. When you bench test her she works fine, pinion gear shoots out and spins quickly. Battery is solid. Put her back in the car, try to start her; turn, catch, turn, catch, turn, catch now click. I think she is stuck forward.

So, what else could be the problem? The grounds are tight, any suggestions on what I should be checking/testing? I'm at a loss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[old dog]

OK, pulled the starter and battery. When you bench test her she works fine, pinion gear shoots out and spins quickly. Battery is solid. Put her back in the car, try to start her; turn, catch, turn, catch, turn, catch now click. I think she is stuck forward.

So, what else could be the problem? The grounds are tight, any suggestions on what I should be checking/testing? I'm at a loss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

It could be a battery problem or a voltage to the starter. Testing on the bench doesn't simulate a load on the battery. If the headlights are on while you are trying to crank the engine, do they go out or get very dim ? That would point more towards a battery problem. You did mention snow and batteries hate the cold !

[Dr Evil]

Did you try cranking over the engine by shorting out the leads on the starter? If when you short out the leads, thus connecting the battery directly to the starter and engage circuit, cutting out the loop involving the key, if it does not turn over and you know the battery is good then your starter is in need of replace/repair.

[stephenaki]

I forgot to try it with the headlights on. I do know that when I ran into this earlier I had it hooked up to my Volvo after I had run the battery down a bit. It still did it; so does this indicate starter?

Mike, I had not tried shorting it out; a bit more challenging without a lift. I'm thinking of getting a volunteer to do this...he, he, he, he...

Prior to this, I never had a problem which is why I am leaning towards this being a starter issue. The battery consistently tests at between 12.3 and 12.2 so I am sure the battery isn't the issue. I'll try again tomorrow and start her with the headlights on and see if she dims significantly...provided I'm not snowed in. German weather says snow tomorrow; we'll see if it holds true.

[Dr Evil]

Is that 12.3-2 with a load on the battery? If it drops significantly with a load then your battery is done. Also, the circuit to activate the starter can drop a significant amount of voltage, enough to cause this. This problem is fairly common.

[stephenaki]

Is that 12.3-2 with a load on the battery? If it drops significantly with a load then your battery is done. Also, the circuit to activate the starter can drop a significant amount of voltage, enough to cause this. This problem is fairly common.

no, 12.3-2 no load. I'll try to hook it up to the Volvo again and see if there is a significant dim on the lights when I try to start her. Thanks for the feedback, it is helps a lot.

[Gint]

Mike, I had not tried shorting it out; a bit more challenging without a lift. I'm thinking of getting a volunteer to do this...he, he, he, he...

I've done it laying on the ground outside the car. You don't need a lift. It is a little intimidating, lay on the ground, reaching your arm all the way under the car, short 12 volts, exhaust next to your head.

[Dave_Darling]

no, 12.3-2 no load.

That's a fairly drained battery. Should be more like 12.65V no load. (After a load is applied for a minute to bleed off the surface charge.)

--DD

[stephenaki]

Gint,
Yeah I was thinking about that; I may try that today.

Dave,
Thanks, I'll hook her up to the Volvo and see if she'll charge up enough to try again. Hopefully I won't be doing this in snow but we will see, not the first time I've worked on her in the snow. It'd be nicer if the friggin garage had power but the guy who built the house used the lowest bidder so the power to garage shorts every time it rains or is really cold. Needless to say, I stay out of the snow but tend to work in the dark a lot! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[Ductech]

Things that kicked my ass with the stock starter system...

1. old battery that drops to low voltage under a load.

2. bad ground connections.

3. too long of a positive supply wire.

4. age of the starter positive wire.

5. wear on the starter

These are the order of things... check all these. starter wear being really the last thing. I found that the original wire for the starter has had a hard life and sometimes never gets replaced. consider it good assurance to replace it eventually. I had a hot start issue that i thought was charge related and battery related. It mostly was the amount of draw when the motor was hot was too much for the old worn corroded cable to carry regardless of the state of the battery charge. And always check your ground cables/straps as people have mentioned.

[stephenaki]

OK, I think the starter is officially dead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I came home at lunch to see if I could get her to start. Hooked up the Volvo to the battery and had the wife run the RPMs up a bit, hit the ignition...Click. OK, put her in gear shove, she resists but rolls so the pinion gear doesn't seem to be stuck.

Pull off the ignition wire to the starter, put the E brake on, MAKE SURE IT IS IN NEUTRAL, screwdriver in hand, crawl under...boy she sparks nicely! Scared the shit out of me! OK, calm down, try again, Click. It sounds like the solenoid is trying to push the gear forward but not having much success.

Well, screw it, lets see how much a new starter runs locally. Talked to the bane of free market existence otherwise known as AAFES. Yeah, they can get a starter, re manufactured one for $450! Are you assholes high?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

OK, I know it won't be much better however, lets call the local VW dealer. Yep, they can get it, it will take a week, they need the old starter and it's a bargain at a mere 450 Euros! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) So basically, they want $600 for a starter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Well, looks like I just ordered the high torque one from PP and it cost me under $300. I can wait for it to get here. So the wiring harness from the battery to the starter is listed as NLA on PP; any recommendations on replacing it? I'll probably replace the battery too but won't do that until I install the new starter. When in doubt, replace all of it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

I just used a big starter wire from my FLAPS, with a bolt-on terminal for the battery end. The wire came with a ring terminal at one end and bare wire at the other, and the terminal has a clamp that goes onto the bare end of the wire. There are extra wires that provide power to the rest of the car's systems, and I put ring terminals on those and put them under the bolts for the clamp-on terminal.

Here's a pic of the clamp-on type of terminal I mean:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.hotrodwires.com-121-1358179404.1.jpg)

--DD

[stephenaki]

I just used a big starter wire from my FLAPS, with a bolt-on terminal for the battery end. The wire came with a ring terminal at one end and bare wire at the other, and the terminal has a clamp that goes onto the bare end of the wire. There are extra wires that provide power to the rest of the car's systems, and I put ring terminals on those and put them under the bolts for the clamp-on terminal.

Here's a pic of the clamp-on type of terminal I mean:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.hotrodwires.com-121-1358179404.1.jpg)

--DD

She's got that clamp on terminal now. I see some serious electrical work when I strip her all the way down. We'll see how the new starter works first then tackle the battery and finally cable if need be. Thanks.

[stephenaki]

WOOHOO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Starter came in! Fastest anything has come in from PP. Anyone have experience with the high torque starter?


From what I could tell, it is pretty much plug and play on this one. Hope to get to it this weekend, weather permitting. Ice and snow has finally started to melt but I think it is gonna be COLD! Which always makes it so much fun working in a frigid garage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Millerwelds]

Not sure which starter that is. Some of the high torque starters need to be shimmed. Mine came with a shim included. In my case I needed it. Other then that it is plug and play.

[stephenaki]

Not sure which starter that is. Some of the high torque starters need to be shimmed. Mine came with a shim included. In my case I needed it. Other then that it is plug and play.

Its from IMI performance products; no shims included in the box.

[stephenaki]

OK, I got the starter put on. As I was working the starter to battery cable I hear 'CRACK!' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) Well, this isn't good. Cable housing just started to crack and come off. OK, pull it off the battery and off to ATU! As expected, the German's poor excuse for an auto parts store can't help me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) At least this time however, they knew who could.

So I make my way down the street about 500M and there is a shop on the left called Jaeger Autotechnik und Elekronik. Walk in show the guy what I need and within 10 minutes he makes me a new one! SWEET! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

So back to the house, finish hooking it up. Crank her over, she tries to start a few times but the battery is a bit drained. Hook her up to the Volvo and crank a few times...bingo! We have ignition! I have the wife keep the RPMs up while I adjust the carbs a bit to get the right idle but she ain't cooperating. OK, wife's gotta go and take the munchkin to skating lessons. Disconnect the jumpers, turn the car off, re-check which way I'm turning the screws...oh yeah, wrong way dumbass! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Adjust back the other way, crank, she starts but the idle is still too low. Shut her off, adjust, crank again..That works! Now the idle is high but, she doesn't sputter and die when I come off the gas. Make some adjustments to bring the idle to 1500 RPMs, balance the carbs...and this is the result.
So that's what a running motor sounds like

OK, so, lets back her out and check the shifting. Dang, not shifting quite right. Get out the book; read the directions on adjusting the linkage, make adjustments, nope. Still not right. So here is where I am at. Per the Haynes manual for cars pre-1973.

"1. Remove the inspection cover panel then loosen the clamp between the front shift rod and the connector rod.
2. Move the shift lever to neutral and rest the shift lever against the left stop.
3. Remove the dust cap on the transmission end of the rear shift rod and move the selector to the neutral position. Center the selector lever by sliding the rear shift rod, as necessary.
4. Tighten the front shift rod clamp then select 3rd gear with the shift lever. Check that the selector lever at the transmission is correctly engaged, readjusting if necessary.
5. Check the operation of the linkage during a test drive."

Well, I followed the directions but she still won't engage in first or 3rd. When I put her in what I am sure is 1st and start to release the clutch I get absolutely nothing. No grinding sound, no catching, nothing. When I popped her into what should have been third, she caught just a bit but then it felt like she, 'kicked' it out of gear. My assumption is that she is not going properly into gear.

So, does anyone have a picture of what it should look like when 3rd gear is properly engaged? I am pretty sure that I don't have the gear shift rod properly aligned. I followed Mike's instructions to the tee when I re-built the transmission so I am certain that this is not the issue. Any suggestions?