Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: '73 Resto & Suby 6 Conversion
914World.com > The 914 Forums > 914World Garage
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
76-914
What's it been? A year since I got Blackie running. I finally get it tuned to a daily driver status and should have been happy as a Lark then but what do I do? I sold the engine (w/90 hour's on the Hobbs) on the last Dawn Patrol GMR run. So I pulled the engine and began preparing Blackie for her transformation.
Click to view attachment

Before I go any further check out my Jack Stands. Min height 19.5", 12 ton and should hold up to a 6.7 quake or direct nuclear attack.
Click to view attachment

And out she comes.
Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

One thing you have to love about these cars is that you can remove an interior in 15 minutes. 30 min's if you have a console. This was one shot before the interior is gutted.
Click to view attachment
and an hour later I'm scraping tar floorboards.
Click to view attachment
76-914
So after a couple of hours this is what I found beneath the tar. biggrin.gif A little surface rust that should brush off with a cup brush. I did not skin the tunnel as it is above any suspect areas and I have looked inside the tunnel before with a camera. The two floorboards together yielded 9.8 lb's of tar.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=359
666]Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
76-914
So the pans look great but look what I found. I had heard that these engine/firewall blankets were nothing but a water trap and now I'm a believer. I guess I should be happy that this is as bad as it gets. Just a little more sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif . BTW, is the firewall 16 or 18ga? Here are 2 pic's of the R side:
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

And the R side:
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment



It's going to be colder than a well diggers ass in January the next few days so I may lay off the car a few days but after it's cleaned, primed it's time for the Engman Kit.
'73-914kid
Only 90 hours on the engine..? I think I have somewhere around 230 hours on my engine since you gave me that hobbs meter, and I've had the meter installed for half as long as the motor was in your car.. wacko.gif


Good to see you making progress on this though Kent. I want a ride once it's finished smile.gif
mrbubblehead
Whats your plan Kent?
76-914
Plan? I knew I forgot something, laugh.gif The plan, quite simply put, is more power.
A 6 cyl, most likely a 3.3 Suby as SVX's are plentiful and cheap or 3.0 with a Suby 5-6 speed trans, A/C and a suspension upgrade in a narrow bodied sleeper. I'm not ruling out a 3.2 w/ Motronic but I doubt one of those is going to land on my plate. Keep in mind that I have CSOB eating habits. The other part of my plan is to educate myself and to have fun while I'm doing it. I look at my '73 as a blank slate awaiting my decision. But no matter which route I go I need to install this Engman kit and some of RacerChris' reinforcement parts.
76-914
Before the fitting can happen I need to locate the weld areas so they can be cleaned and prepped. A black felt tip works but a white one would have been better with a black paint job. shades.gif

Click to view attachment

I needed to remove a bit of the polyurethane foot material now or put the fire out later.

Click to view attachment

With all the weld areas marked it is just a matter of hitting it with a steel cup brush.

Click to view attachment

Just about then Ceasar (phatt911)pulls up with Dave (silverinsocal) and his brother-in-law to help me with my conversion. You see, I needed to sell my 4 cylinder as I now have no use for it. Beside it was time. I had 90.2 hr's on it since rebuild. lol-2.gif av-943.gif No worries. I enjoy the build more than the ride. And with all this new work I should be one happy guy for the next year or so. smile.gif So adios engine y vaya con Dios, Ceasar.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
76-914
So, weld areas are sanded, cleaned and hit with some Weld thru Primer.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Now the pieces can begin to be fitted. All seam sealer needs to be removed before they fit correctly. And in my case just a tad bit of trimming of the piece(s).
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment
76-914
There are places that need to be bent or formed and it looks like I will need to do a few spot welds before I begin manipulating the pieces for final fit. The parts are pre cut to allow easy bending and forming. You can see the slots in the pieces that allow this.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Click to view attachment
Cairo94507
Nice work and pictures. Keep 'em coming please.
Chris H.
Awesome. I need to do an Engman kit myself. You'll be ahead of me in a week!
76-914
QUOTE(Chris H. @ Jan 14 2013, 05:44 AM) *

Awesome. I need to do an Engman kit myself. You'll be ahead of me in a week!

I think not. Your way ahead of me. Hey Chris, IYDM, how much did your 3.3 and related goodies cost? Are you going MR 2 or Mitsu for your shifter?
Chris H.
Sure no prob. I have learned that no matter how cheap you think it will be ...it will always fall into line with most other options.

The car was $600. It was mechanically great but cosmetically not so good. I was able to drive it home which was a plus. Most important thing is to listen and observe the engine...when you start it, it should idle about 1500 or so, then settle to a very even idle of 800ish. Watch the temp and look under it for leaks. You should be able to tell if it's strong or not. Expect to change the seals unless you get lucky like BIGKAT and find one that is practically new. These leak oil just like 911 engines after a while.

At this point the stuff has totaled:

Car - $600
WRX Trans and flywheel - $800
coldwaterconversions stuff (everything but the hard engine mounts) $1375
Custom exhaust and related goodies, plus another mount - $350
Engine seals, timing belt, spark plugs, etc ~$400ish
1990-1992 Honda Accord shifter - $40 shipped

Still need radiator hoses, cable shift linkage, cables, some CV joints, a clutch disc, slave cylinder, etc. Probably another $800 or so.

Keep in mind that you can part out the SVX and recoup some costs. All of the small stuff can be sold (switches, controls, mirrors, interior stuff, lenses). The differentials, axles/cv's and most importantly a good trans are worth $. Also the leather interiors are very desirable. SVXWorld.com is a good place to sell stuff. Just wait til I am done biggrin.gif (Kidding, it doesn't matter there are several part-outs on there now). A metal scrapper paid $150 for the shell. I'll sell my current TIV engine, side shift trans, linkage, etc. (hey side shift conversion people!)and should be looking pretty good. I will also do a 5 lug conversion. Already bought the wheels. Got a great line on the rest as well... I figure the net will be $6k ish...so let's call it $12k. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

The cool thing about the SVX is it's very powerful in stock form so you can use most of the stock components as well as the niceties like air cond, real heater, etc. You can also use the fuel pump which makes it convenient. And they are pretty cheap. They are extremely similar to 914's. Manufactured roughly the same number of years, quirky but cool, a little too expensive when new, all years are identical shells with small cosmetic revisions each year. They are in the same place 914's were in the late '90's...lots of part-outs, not a lot of love, small following of fanatics... weird....

76-914
Thx Chris. Great info. I didn't know about the Honda shifter so I'll be watching your thread. Bigcat is a wealth of info for sure. I'll end up PM'ing him to death before this is over. lol-2.gif

Edit: ordered the 5" firewall section from Restoration Design. I'm glad they are an active member here because that "shipping quoted after the sale" would have scared the crap out of me, otherwise.
Chris H.
Yeah even if mine takes too long and costs too much it's been worth it to get to know so many talented people.

Good luck with the firewall replacement. At least you found it before it did any damage to the floors.
Elliot Cannon
You actually trust those jack stands?? screwy.gif
Dasnowman
QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 12 2013, 07:38 PM) *

There are places that need to be bent or formed and it looks like I will need to do a few spot welds before I begin manipulating the pieces for final fit. The parts are pre cut to allow easy bending and forming. You can see the slots in the pieces that allow this.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Click to view attachment



How are you going to weld it to prevent unibody warping and the gaps getting mis-aligned?

I was thinking of just doing the spot and stitch welding. ar15.gif
76-914
Now that this Artic cold spell has passed I was able to get a few hours in towards installing the stiffies. I think that sounds current, don't you? I mean no one says vegetables anymore. It's always veggies. So why should they be called stiffners. I suppose one would have to be careful and reference each as a "right or left' stiffie while never using the generic term "a long stiffie". I decided before I began welding I should prep the floors for paint. I pulled the pedal assm and it was junky looking but not as bad as it looks here. It will clean up nicely should it be needed.
Click to view attachment

The pedal area had a little surface rust but it's a bitch to grind in that area so I phosfo'd it after a light brushing and then shot some primer/sealer on it.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment
76-914
A few shots of the rear stiffie after most of the welds on the face but before the top piece is bent over and welded.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

And after the top tab is bent and welded in a few more spots. That's as far as I'm going today but there will be a few more welds/grinding then on to the "right long stiffie".

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
Jeffs9146
OK this is the first time I have seen this thread and I have to say it........don't climb under the car on those jack stands!! blink.gif

This is a must read! Jack Stands
76-914
QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Jan 19 2013, 07:35 PM) *

OK this is the first time I have seen this thread and I have to say it........don't climb under the car on those jack stands!! blink.gif

This is a must read! Jack Stands

Yea, I read that. Did you read this? http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=139114&hl= Besides these jacks stands, fully collapsed, are 19.5" which would allow for me and a most of my tools. biggrin.gif Thanks for looking out for me though. beerchug.gif
76-914
I got around to welding on the r&l long stiffners before I ran out of wire. First thing was to get it supported on the killer jack stands. These were perfect because I wasn't under the car and they are low enough that I can get my ancient ass in & out when welding.
Click to view attachment

Next was to level it. I used the bubble and the electronic app. Both work great.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I then marked 3 spots on each door and measured the gaps before I began welding onto the longs.

Click to view attachment
76-914
When I was banging around bracing the panels with 2 x's I knocked the big urethane floorboard piece loose. I was going to work around it if possible just to preserve that OG floor so this is a plus.
Click to view attachment

A little more scraping with the razor. mineral spirits to remove the old glue and remaining tar and this too will be clean in 20 min's.
Click to view attachment

Talk about Engman Quality. Look at the fit between the rear and left piece.

Click to view attachment

Same view but tacked up

Click to view attachment
FourBlades

Nice work man! piratenanner.gif

John
76-914
Here is another view of the same corner but with the top of the corner piece now formed to meet the rounded corner.

Click to view attachment

A close up of that "formed" piece. Me thinks beat to death is more appropriate.

Click to view attachment

And this is where I'm at until I get by the welding shop and restock my .023.

Click to view attachment

That bottom right hole that is blown wasn't cleaned headbang.gif so I'll move left 3mm and tack it in the seam where it is clean.
Click to view attachment
76-914
I finally finished the welding of the Engman kit. I didn't purty it up for these pic's. I still need to grind down a few welds, vacuum and prime the bare spots. It looks like Hell now but a little Wurth's and some paint will clean it up. I'm glad that I ran out of the .023 because I also bought some .030 and had much better results on the longs w/ the .030. Faster = less heat. Doors shut just as sweet as before. It's back on the ground. Into the Hell Hole and on to the firewall patch next. I need to clean up some p/o welds around the hinges and battery tray. I think they attempted arc welding. Looks like a mud dabbers nest. lol-2.gif I guess I had better start thinking cooling while I'm in the cut n patch mode. idea.gif

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
jimkelly
fantastic pics aktion035.gif

do you plan to seam seal the entire perimeter and perferations? popcorn[1].gif
76-914
Thx Jim, and yes I have some Wurth's seam sealer that will go on before I paint it.
76-914
Just got off the phone after discussing metal shrinkage with Ceasar (phatt911) and realized that this might be of some use to those considering a stiffner kit. As shown in an earlier pic, I measured the door gap at 3 equidistant locations on both doors prior to any welding on the long portions. I did NOT brace the door but did this instead. After leveling (and that is a trick) the car I would weld 3 spots (front, middle and rear to keep the weld spots spread out) on one side and then move to the other side and repeat. Never welding any area unless the metal was cool enough to place my dinkus upon. If additional time was needed I would do some grinding instead. After 6 or 8 welds on each side I would check the door gaps again. I welded all of the vertical spots (or sides) before doing the tops. The shrinkage that I experienced was .37mm after welding the sides. After welding the top portions the shrinkage increased to 1mm nominally. Or .63mm. Amazing! Half the area and half as many holes as the sides, yet twice the shrinkage. I had suspected this might be the case and had therefor left the top on during construction just in case. I think that bracing the door is the more prudent action but I like to test the water for myself from time to time and these are my results. Disclaimer: Your results will probably vary. smoke.gif
andys
Here are my before and after dimensions. Red is after, units are in inches. The lower parts of the door gap didn't change much, so I omitted those.

Andys

76-914
Similar results. Within .01" (.027mm) +/- of each other. beerchug.gif
eric9144
popcorn[1].gif This should make the Dawn Patrols more interesting, now we're all going to have "stiffy" envy blink.gif av-943.gif
Chris H.
Top notch details on the Engman install. Thanks a lot for posting.
76-914
So I started with the firewall patch/repair today. Here is the psg side before cutting.

Click to view attachment

and this was the drv side

Click to view attachment

some beginning cuts removing just the rust areas and then enlarging the cuts in preparation for final trimming.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

stateofidleness
*subscribed*

in the same boat. i'll take all the knowledge i can get! (never touched a welder before.. got one for christmas. this'll be my first "small" project with it)
76-914
So while I wait for the "correct" size of steel to patch the firewall I thought I would clean up the engine compartment and see if I could find anymore rust. There is a bunch of the old mat stuck to it..........

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And this looks a little suspicious. Rivets and a rough finish on the panel.

Click to view attachment

Then there is the matter of this booger by the PO.

Click to view attachment

So I drill out the rivets and look what I find. Has anyone seen these before. Obviously stamped steel so mfg'd by someone.

Click to view attachment

Once they're out this is all that was left of the tray. The pedestal was in good shape but I doubt I will relo a batt here.

Click to view attachment

Couple of pic's while getting cleaned. These holes need to be welded up

Click to view attachment

And a small patch here

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

One booger mostly ground down

Click to view attachment
76-914
%90 clean. A little more here and there then patch n prime. The side wall behind the batt cleaned up pretty good, too. A little pitted so it will be treated to a phospho shower.

Click to view attachment

The rest has cleaned up quite well.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
76-914
So I need to fill some holes where the batt tray was riveted to the panel. If you look closely you can see the copper spoon thru the holes.

Click to view attachment

and now they're ground down and gone

Click to view attachment

a shot of primer to ward off the rust gods

Click to view attachment

Here is another spot that needs to be filled. Oops, chair.gif I need to re-size these pic's and continue in the next post.

Click to view attachment
76-914
future
76-914
OK so here we go again. This is the area behind the drivers behind. Immediately to the right of this pic is the pull tube attach for the engine lid release. More on that later.

Click to view attachment

Another look at it from below, looking up. See the crack of light? No you can't because it's the last pic in this post. Don't know how I did that but could'nt correct it. lol

The backup spoon in place..........

Click to view attachment

Another look at it from the cabin side this time. Flash really puts a tinge to the color. Anyway you can clearly see the copper in the pic.

Click to view attachment

In this pic you can see where the crack was filled and ground down (on the left side). See the "V" area to the right that has rusted away. Imagine that area going another 1" down and that is how far the rust traveled on the back side. This area is close to that pull tube which gets a lot of work so I want to reinforce this area.

Click to view attachment

In order to do this I need to make a pattern.....

Click to view attachment

And a piece of .045".

Click to view attachment

The pattern is taped in place and traced onto the steel piece.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

A quick cut out. This piece will be trimmed and edges polished with 3M wheel before it is welded in place.

Click to view attachment

Initial fitting.........

Click to view attachment

See the saw blade? It's laying on what is left of the old flange. It does 2 things. It gives an accurated location for a bend reference and #2, with a little movement it will scribe your piece for you.

Click to view attachment

With the piece scribed (I marked the scribes w/felt tip to show in the pic's) we are ready to mark the bend line. I thought we just did? slap.gif Well close. Our mark is where we want the bottom of our flange to end up, right? To get there accurately we have to take a couple of things into account. The thickness of our metal and the bend radius. In this case the metal is .047" and the bend radius is .0675". Add those 2 numbers together, subtract them from your reference line and mark your bend line.

Click to view attachment

Years ago I did this and you might also. These cheap Chinese vices are good for something. It's quite easy to radius "one" jaw with a file, quickly. It can be done with a long file in <5 min's and won't effect future operations. Notice the jaw on the left is radius-ed. This next part isn't important unless you want it to fit so pay attention. Notice the feeler gage. The base of it is aligned with the scribe mark on the new bend line. You cannot see it but it is at the top of the fat lower ink line which is for illustration. The point is that the bend line "must" be aligned with the top of the jaw(or bottom of feeler gage).

Click to view attachment

I'm using a piece of hardwood but it could be a piece of square tube as well. But I slowly hammer it down being careful to not let the wood piece rise as it is tapped. BTW, anything longer than this would require my brake but his is < 6" so no biggie.

Click to view attachment
76-914
Here we see it taking shape..

Click to view attachment

Now it is almost flat or at a 90' angle but that's as far as it is going here because of "springback" so I remove it now. Yes, I see the edge needs trimming.

Click to view attachment

Here is the piece out of the vice, Just needs some weld holes drilled into it.

Click to view attachment

And fitted into place

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And welded in place

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
Socalandy
Looking good Kent but who is this jester for? or were you showing the metal who's boss
76-914
Hah, good one Andy! Just trying to hold it for the pic. I finally received the 20 ga metal today. First time they shipped 17 ga, oops. Anyway they were great about it. Bobco metals in LA. They are on the net and ship. Remember this? The psg side

Click to view attachment

and the drvrs side

Click to view attachment

Here is a shot of the psg side pattern being traced

Click to view attachment

with the flash off you can see what I see, easy enough to trace out

Click to view attachment

this is the first rough cut of the drvr side firewall patch piece

Click to view attachment

The piece placed against the firewall to check overall fit and mark for trim

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

and a compound curve

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

this is one of my CSOB tools I made out of water pump pliers and an old lawn mower blade years ago. with the piece firmly clamped a piece of .050" (6160) aluminum which is radiused, shown in the next pic, is driven into the steel right next to the fixture holding it. This is what created the raised portion that was necessary to meet the existing material

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

starting to take shape

Click to view attachment



Click to view attachment
76-914
Well, with the rust repair (I think) behind me it's time to move on to the new water cooling system. I've ordered twin fan set up from EBay (thx for the tip BigKat) that I will use to begin some initial mock ups. For $45 incl shpg I can't go too wrong. If the size works I'll order a radiator to match. After a lot of reading I've decided to go the rubber hose route. Originally I believed that I wanted to run copper behind the valance thru the gussets but I thought I should avoid the plating process dry.gif . While waiting for something to cool or dry I gave this a try with pleasing results. I know where I'm running my hoses now. piratenanner.gif


Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I also will be ducting thru the wheels but noticed a dent/crease on the R side. I know that area will be hacked but I needed to know if this was under stress before I began removing any material. The floor pan beneath the spare is beat to shit from bottoming out but I wasn't sure if it was a result of impact so hence my concern for the dent. It's hard to see in these pic's but the area is outlined in blue tape.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And here is my body tool. A 12lb sledge hammer with a piece of foam insulation duct taped on the end to soften the blow.

Click to view attachment

And just then my neighbor who has a dentless repair business walked in and said "What are you doing?" I said, "waiting for you". He told me that I probably would have stretched it and ended up with a bow going the other way. Talk about falling in a bucket of stromberg.gif and coming out smelling like a rose. bootyshake.gif Took him all of 2 min's. This is Jeremy pray.gif

Click to view attachment

I asked Blackie if she was happy with her makeover. I think she approves. biggrin.gif

Click to view attachment




76-914
It's been too long so I'll post what I have. I've held back because the first fan assm has a bad bearing on one of the units and I ordered the wrong replacement headbang.gif Jesus H. Anyway the radiator is held up in the snow storm so I went with "what I got" for now. I placed to fan unit for a quick birds eye view. Looks doable. Thanks for the tip BigCat. I went with your radiator suggestion too but it's not arrived.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

My plan ( I'm playing like I know what I'm doing happy11.gif ) is to seal or box off the area immediately between the headlights to serve as a plenum of sorts. A quick temp install of the fans show they'll clear the sides enough.

Click to view attachment

In order to do this the "box" must be reasonably sealed and here are a few lightning holes on these ribs that need to be sealed with the cardboard templates attached.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

A few more but with the templates for the side pieces that will double as seals and attach points, I think smoke.gif

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
76-914
A few blanks Wurther'd into place

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Another view

Click to view attachment

Then the brutalization

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Then back to work. Here are the pieces laid out, first trim, fit in place and awaiting final bends and attach points. But that will have to wait until the radiator arrives.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment



76-914
I'm going with a very good heater hose but not anything exorbitant. My heater hoses will not see the light of day so I see no need (at this time) to use green stripe or other big $$$ hoses. I was able to fish a piece thru the long w/o binding or kinking.

Click to view attachment

The trick is revealed. First fish the heater hose thru this vacuum/pool hose then fish the combination thru while rotating. The external hose has added benefits. It keeps the heater hose from crimping and adds some degree of wear protection to it, also. On final install I will trim the vac hose to conceal it. The metal opening will get a rubber grommet to center the heater hose where it passes thru on both ends. Will help to keep other critters out as well. happy11.gif

Click to view attachment
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.