I opened my garage tonight to troubleshoot wiring. There was a smokey smell in it pretty strong. No smoke though so I was a little confused. I look in my rear trunk which was open as I was testing ECU wiring the previous night. I did pull one of the 3 relays last night that sit by my ECU. Just wanted to grab some in town to swap out & rule those out as a possible problem. I did not leave the key on or anything. I didn't think to pull the ground. I don't see why I'd need to as all I did was pull a relay. HOW the fuch does this happen just sitting?

I admit I am no genius with wiring but really? How could pulling a relay catch my car on fire?

I guess I should feel lucky as this happened in my closed garage with nobody the wiser. It is also just the battery & into my trunk. I sure as hell don't feel lucky. I feel like I got kicked in the nuts repeatedly really hard

WTF!

Wow!

Ship it to my house. I'll have it fixed up in a jiffy...

direct short to the battery? holy moly!!

That really sucks Jamie!!!

If you want it fixed quick...Mike's your man...he's crazy good at electrical.
Good luck.

I once melted down the batteries and associated wiring on a an old bulldozer. I killed the battery trying to start it and the current that was going through the starter solenoid fused it closed, the battery was so dead the starter stopped turning. I left and unbeknownst to me current was still flowing. I went back the next day like you and it was a mess. Maybe one of your relays did the same thing Were they the right amperage for the application? Did you leave your key in the run position over night?

Jon H.

You were lucky you didn't lose the house!

Never saw a battery melt down like that!!

Nuts! Good luck with the repairs.

Damn.... Thats going to be alot of work to repair. You are very lucky you didn't burn up the whole car. Does not look like it damaged the ecu($1100). Think I'd just get a new harness from outfront.
In your trouble shooting thread I warned you to be careful. Didn't think it would be like this.

That sucks man. Sorry that happened to you. Could have been a LOT WORSE though. Didn't even realize that was your battery!

Mike is an electrician. He can fix that easily.

Yeah I was going to call Outfront today about a harness. I thought I was being careful. I still don't get how pulling that one relay would cause this. I did not leave the key turned on. I have fuses on all the power wires. Well I thought there were anyway. I didn't wire this but it looked that way. I'll pull the battery tonight & start cleaning up the mess.

I am very thankful it wasn't worse. Not only my car but my whole garage is safe. I can rewire clean up & nobody would even know looking at my car. So I consider myself lucky while feeling fairly screwed at the same time . Well shit happens & you move on. Moving on today. At least I will have a more intimate knowledge of the wiring in my car now right

Pulling out a relay should not have caused that. My bet is that there was some other cause. It may have been that the relay was somehow preventing that other cause from manifesting (it may have even been physically holding two wires apart?) but it was not the cause.

--DD

I can't see how pulling the relay caused this. What I think is when you pulled the relay you also pulled on the harness and maybe shorted some wires in the harness.
I'm helping someone now with a Stinger ECU and a outfront wiring harness it looked a little different that the one you have.

Bob has the right idea, Jamie. Order another harness then remove an old wire and plug in the new one. While your in there double check each to be sure it was in the correct position (which it probably was as it ran for a long time w/o this problem). You'll find it! Or, take Mike up on his offer!

Wow, what a mess. I would think that to do that kind of damage to the battery, there had to be a direct short somewhere. Hope you find out what caused it.

that is just terrible. I am sorry to see this Jamie. hope you find the cause and get her fixed.

Man that sucks! It's gonna be a fairly big job to sort out, but like you said, you'll be intimately familiar with the wiring after this. And if there is a silver lining (tin lining?), you'll be able to go through the wiring and develop a wiring diagram so you know where and how everything is run, as well as make any changes you need to at that point.

I think the origination of the issue is these wires here. Something in that area could have been rubbing which exposed the wires. Maybe there was even a bare spot, maybe while pulling the relay it scraped enough to expose the wires. From there the wires got hot along the whole length and one wire melted to another wire and that got hot and then compounded from there.

That sucks

My knowledge of thing electrical is fairly limited but is it possible that the battery hold down plate was touching the positive terminal? From the picture it looked really close to the terminal. It looks like part of it burned away. Sorry for the bad luck Jamie. Now get busy.

Jamie,
Here is some advice. If it happened once, it can happen again. Something was wrong and may have been that way for a while. Take the car to Mike and let him straighten it out. Afterward you will have a schematic of where the wires go and he will make sure to put fuses where they should be.
Without a schematic, you can not say pulling a relay could have or could not have caused this. Depends on where and what type of relay it was and exactly what it functioned to do. At least after Mike finishes, he will have some kind of schematic that will tell you what all of the relays do and then later if something does not work, you can use the schematic to troubleshoot the problem.
Tom

Wow, that sucks.

Good thing it didn't catch other stuff on fire and burn the entire 914 and garage.

Looking at the damage, one has to wonder if the battery was shorted, burned, and burned the electronics, or the electronics burned and cause the battery to burn.

It would seem that a heavy current drain from the electronics would not cause the battery to burn. The battery should be able to drain 10, 20A without burning up.

things really go south right after the connection point under the plastic cover next to the ex-battery. the big reds from that point back to the bat have cooked a bit but after that it's crispy critters. i think things could have wired in a more 'proper' fashion, like the amp and other sections with materials other than household wire nuts and electrical tape to secure things. i'm not meaning to bag on you.

k

China Syndrome.

Wow!
I don't know if you are unlucky... or horse shoes up the arse lucky for not burning down the house.

I'm paranoid about fires. All 12 of my "toy" cars have battery disconnect switches or terminals. It not only keeps the battery from draining between drives but minimizes chances of what you just experienced!

I do have full coverage with Hagerty. While putting in a claim will make my premium go up. I'm thinking this is going to end up costing a couple grand when it's all said & done. Anyone see any problem with the insurance possibly denying the claim? I'm not exactly sure if this was my fault or what?

It will be interesting to see what Hagerty says. If it's under $2 k or so I would pay out of pocket...that's just me. I wouldn't want an insurance claim for such a small amount. I would rather save the hassle and resultant premium increases and such for something major!

Thing is if I have a shop do anything it will easily run over that. I have paint that will need done in both the trunk & engine bay. The wiring may need to be redone completely. Not sure if this has gotten into the loom in the tunnel. It will certainly have to come out to be sure. Odds are good there will be some things on my motor that will need replaced. Yes I can do all that work cheaper. I'll just have to sell some shit to pay for it. Which I can do. Just weighing the pro's & cons of making a claim or not

I understand what you are saying. Does the policy include electrical fires? Accident and collision are obviously covered. Even fires related to fuel issues are covered. I'm just wondering if this would be considered to be in the same category as a mechanical failure? We need an insurance person to chime in....

how much will your premium increase per month if you file a claim?

I have no idea. Was hoping someone had & could enlighten me

It's been a long time, but I had a claim with Hagerty for a small incident and they were great. They followed up frequently to make sure I was getting proper repairs and my premium didn't increase either. Unlike typical insurance companies, I've always felt they were part of the 'team'. I wouldn't hesitate to call them for advice on the situation. JMO

Yeah I think I will call them tomorrow. My coverage is great & I have zero deductible. So I may as well see what they have to say. I won't be any worse off finding out. I was going to start tearing stuff out tonight but figured I better not touch anything yet.

Really looks to have started with my main power wire running from the starter to the battery. Seeing the damage that makes more sense than the smaller wires up top by the relay. Which coincidentally sit right above the wire running to my starter. Who the hell knows though with this stuff. It sucks & I'm depressed about my car. At the same time I feel blessed it was not worse. I've never seen a battery melted that way. Knowing all the heat was right above my fuel pump & lines. I am counting my blessings my car didn't explode & take the garage with it

Wish I. Could offer some advise but I. Got nothing.

Internal short in the battery? What brand is .....was....it?

Jaime,
I'm sorry that this happened to you. Hope you figure it out and get back on the road without to much expense. Be interesting to see what Hagerty says.

Dave

I was wondering the same thing. I'm not an electrical guru but wouldn't a short on anything small, i.e 8ga and smaller, burn through the wire before melting the battery???? I made the starter cover much larger after I noticed how close the Suby starter wire was to the trunk.

Called Hagerty to submit a claim. We will see where it goes from there once the adjustor comes out. I'll update here after they come. The adjustor is supposed to call me within 24 hours. Then setup a time to come take a look. I imagine it will be next week before that happens.

Adjustor came out. I think it was a little over his head. He really had no clue what to do on it. So it is heading to a shop. Then I'll get more info from them but I don't think I'll have a problem with insurance covering it. Really didn't sound like it. I may have gotten lucky with a shop. Called Outfront Motorsports where Dean got the ECU & wiring harness. They are really backed up on that work. Was thinking of taking it down to their shop to make sure everything was done right. He said they are like 5 months out though .
I asked if he knew of any shops in Oregon they would recommend. They have a guy who just moved up here & is opening a shop in Bend. It's called suby tech HQ. Guy's name is Mike & after talking with him. I'll be towing my car over there to get the work done. He has done multiple conversions & didn't have a problem taking it on. He is also literally just opening so I can get in pretty quick. Only downside is he heads Japan next month.
So if I have any holdups with insurance or whatever. I definitely won't have it back in time for Red Rocks. Which sucks but if it doesn't happen oh well. I want it done right & will wait.

Overall this sucks with my car. The more I see it the more I feel very lucky it wasn't worse. I've never seen a battery melt like that. So glad it was a dry cell or this would have been a very different story. Seeing my fuel pump & lines fairly close. Scares the shit out of me man. My garage seriously could have gone up pretty quick. I will keep with the updates on the insurance side of things. I appreciate all the kind words from everyone

Sounds like you're on the right track! Get er done right! Now it will smell good AND run well.

And yeah, you WERE LUCKY. Even if there was some excess vapor in the intake...coulda been really bad news.

Speaking of kind words...nice job packing the flares. Seriously top notch. And I'm sure you got some offers to sell them for more $$$ so thanks for being the stand-up guy that you are and honoring the unwritten 914World sellers code. Someday I'll make my car look like a Laguna Blue version of yours. Kinda funny since you have a Laguna Blue car now that the flares were originally for.

This is what I was wondering also. Did the adjuster say anything specific about electical fires?

What kind of battery was that? Was it a lithium? Laptop computers had a problem with the batteries burning up. Once there is an internal short there becomes a snowball effect. It could be as simple as a defective battery.

My claims lady mentioned electrical fires. If a specific part started the fire. That part itself would not be covered. Any damage it caused would be. So I feel pretty good there. I did get an email saying they need a police or fire report. Of course I did neither of those. So called the fire dept & waiting to hear if they can do a cold fire investigation. Hope to hear back from them but it will most likely be next week there too. So I am kinda stuck until next week anyway

Wow Jamie, so sad to see this and so thankful it wasn't any worse. The battery was from CarQuest, an NGT EXTREME AGM.

Dropped my car off at Subie Tech HQ in Bend Oregon. Mike is a really cool guy who loves doing suby conversions. This is the first 914 he has worked on. He's done quite a few Vanagon conversions. Just moved up from the LA area. He has worked with Outfront motorsports & in their shop. Which is where my ECU & wiring harness was bought. Really felt good about leaving it with him.

He'll be dropping the drivetrain monday. Really depends how far my wiring harness is screwed into the cab. Overall the damage goes from my battery back into the trunk by the ECU. Where my wiring harness splits by the firewall it is melted by the battery. Doesn't look to have gone far but that will add some time if I have to replace the wiring all the way into the cab. As it stands now looking at a new wiring harness from Outfront along with an ECU. There is some damage to it that didn't show in the pics. Between that & getting the firewall repainted along with some of the trunk. This repair bill is going to get up there a bit. I feel good it is going to be done right though. With him just opening I am getting top priority so he will be getting into this week pretty heavy.

Barring trouble with Insurance or a delay getting my wiring harness & ECU from Outfront. I have a decent shot at having it back for Red Rocks. I'm not going to hold my breath there though. Pretty much everything will need to go just right for that to happen. Odds are better it will be into october as he leaves to go to Japan for 3 weeks in September. Everyone keep your fingers crossed it all goes perfect

Bummer your car caught on fire, but very lucky you didn't lose the whole car and garage. Even a few thousand dollar claim will be pretty small compared to injury or total loss claims on most classic cars. A cracked Ferrari windshield probably costs that much. You made the right move. Sounds like it's on the way back. I sure would like to see that car in person one day.

Any updates, Jamie?

I am glad you didnt lose the whole shop!!