http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Porsche-914-9...=p2056016.l4276

There is a lot wrong with this car:
adjustable passenger seat with '75-'76 large basket weave.
Dash knobs incorrect.
Drivers seat back cushion large basket weave, bottom cushion small basket weave.
COA say originally Tangerine, I don't see Tangerine anywhere on this car, paint code plate is either painted over or missing.
Door panels large basket weave.
Throttle handle red.

That's enough, someone else chime in.

There is nothing wrong with the dash knobs.

Been repainted though.

Seat belts are late type, probably done the same time as seats/backpad.
I don't know the cutoff year or time, but my car does not have the round
piece of frame in front of the spare.

Missing drain tube from fuel overflow.

Also I don't know when it started, but my early car does not have the
charcoal canister.

Toolkit is ridiculous.

Early cars had the jack mounts at the rear left of the trunk.

In his 'spare parts' box is an engine lid drain tube that -6's did not have.

15" Fuchs are not original but nice.

No headlight surrounds. Also, they should be the white ones.

Appears stamped vin in front compartment has been cut out and a 914-6 number placed?

Dash knobs are late ones aren't they? Hazard knob should have the "VW" logo in the middle and Headlight knob should just have the light logo no writing, where is the fog light switch? Also vin plate in front trunk looks like it was added after paint, there is overspray everywhere and none on that plate. The round door vents should not have the plastic screens in them. The back trunk does not belong to this car.

Round supports around the spare tire did not come on early cars. Underbody style swaybar didn't come on any 914.

Passenger seatback looks wrong. The right rear long underneath (at the bend) looks "crooked"... like a -4 engine mount was cut out. Mo evidence whatsoever of the original color.

Did the front trunks in 1970 have those supports?

Something smells wrong!

OK I will say it. It is a late car that has the /6 parts added. Front trunk is wrong, rear trunk jack holder is wrong, late cover on shift rod at firewall. Pull the passenger side carpet and I bet you find a late style foam insert. Also /6 wiper motors are different, I would need to pull the fresh air blower to confirm.

Also you can't add late style seat belts to an early firewall with out making mods to it.

Dash heat/air control unit is a later one. I don't see the vin listed in the registry here.

My apologies, after looking at mine, you are right.

Whoever said where is the fog light switch, it could be that the car did
not come with fogs. If they moved all the parts to another car, that
pretty much explains everything, including why there is no trace of
tangerine anywhere. Either this guy is a crook or he got taken by
somebody else and is not aware.

So that's what $27k plus WILL NOT buy these days. There's rust every where coming thru the white over red paint. Little wrongs are easy fixes. Very shoddy over all. I'd rather a well done conversion for that kind of money.

This is a spooky one.

I see some orange on the headlight lids but thats about all for the orig orange paint evidence.

The trunk id number look to have a lot of yellow paint around them and it is on the right, not in the center ?

That front fender vin looks to be clearly cut and welded in, didnt even make an effort to hide the seam !!!

Front torsion bar adjusters are late.

If it was a real 1970 chassis some one went through a lot of work to ad all the late sheet metal bits (seat belt mounts, front support, jack mounting relocation, passenger seat mounting, cabin vent caps, etc..)
If any car shouts vin swap this one sure does...

The orig 914-6 dash would be fairly easy to swap into another chassis.

Hand brake is from a late chassis.

Has later larger rear view mirror, often a replacement.

Late rear bumpers are often found on orig 6's due to replacements.

The charcoal canister came on the USA 914-6's (Mine has one.)

COA is nice, but the chassis looks late to me !


Run, don't walk ! ! ! ! !

Bidding's up to $38,600.

I guess plenty of bidders on this car aren't 914world members!

Good observations, guys!!!

I smell a Lawsuit down the Road. But then again Idiots are bidding this Turd up.

Even if it was Real, a few years ago this would have been a $12,000 Restoration candidate

no center dash vent

Shouldn't somebody 'Ask a Question' on ebay asking if the guy selling knows
this is a not real?

I did this morning. Will keep you posted. Looks very odd when you add up all of the things mentioned.

Funny, I just went back and checked and my question does not appear on the site???

Seller has the Option of whether your Question appears or not

That may explain a lot!

it explains EVERYTHING!!! although i haven't looked at the listing this am i get a whiff of shill biding.

I did too. I called their number in the ad, no answer. Since they have a 100% feedback rating on ebay and they have sold other cars I would think they would know this car is not correct, but then again maybe they don't and think the COA is all they need?

If they respond / call back I am not going to be a jerk, just want to point out they really need to look this car over because a vin swap car is a no - no

what a pos. someone explain this to me…so there's *9149430649* in one picture and then 293956 in another? wtf? not enough time this am to point out every WRONG with this car. BUT, it would be nice if this nearly $40k car had the driver's side door bin and shouldered clamps on the carbs. what are the legal ramifications as it appears to being offered by a business? i wonder if the guy in one of the pictures even noticed his mugshot?

Not sure if it is shill bidding with 9 different bidders. I can't believe this is already at $39,000 with 6 days to go.

i have 9 friends.

i rarely even look at ebay. only when other surfers provide links. how does one view the bid history and who's doing the biding?

i hope we don't have to break the news to a new member that joins world and posts pictures of their NEW 6.

I tend to believe the seller doesn't know (although some of the things
_should_ have indicated if they are not turning the other way). Why post
the obvious suspect fender VIN stamp if you knew? Why write up all the
'rust-free' nonsense when the pictures show it has seen better days? Why
show the rear trunk stamp? I can't decode those but some people can and
it would indicate a different year body.

Also, even if bidders think the car is real, what would make it worth $40K+?
So much would need to be fixed on the car.

Just in case someone needs this photo after the auction:

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The definitive answer is right next to the hand brake hidden by carpet.
If the hand pocket formed in the inner long panel goes to the bottom its a late chassis which can not be 914-6.
Early chassis' had the hand pocket formed only halfway to the bottom.

http://s138.photobucket.com/user/fast4401/...G_2150.jpg.html

Final straw for me that VIN does not match chassis. That is the factory glue which is now turned a rust color over factory Light Ivory paint.

ahhh… the fine print…

1 "engine turns freely". that's good!
2 "brakes still functioning". one would hope so for $40k.
3. "ran when parked". speaks for itself .

and then, "we are confident…". that's a 'maybe but not sure' to me.

well, that's easy ...

9140430649 = VIN
293956 = Karmann body number ... but not of a 914-6 (and there's a digit missing anyway)

that's the 3rd strike on the 3rd batter (baseball).

The really big tipoff is the hidden trunk vin and it's location. .
that is NOT A REAL SIX body. .
a six has the Karman vin in the center of the trunk. . only
Four's had it on the right rear side as shown in the pictures, ,

Front with the curved reinforcing panel in fornt of the spare is from late models

Best guess this is a 75 body. .

only the early ones ... later cars had it on the right side of the rear trunk (like the 4-cyl)



only up to (about) June 1974 - then it was moved to the front bonnet, on a little tag on the passengers' side spare wheel room


with a non-matching rear trunk ...

I get the impression that the seller really doesn't know. With the shear number of things that say, if not shout, "re bodied" you would have to be either ignorant or an idiot (or both) to keep on calling it a "numbers matching" real 914/6. It's like whoever built it didn't even try. Still a lot of cool parts, I'd pay 8-10K for it. Maybe at the impound auction?

May have been the original 914-6 was totaled/scrapped and parts moved to this apparent 914-4 body.
Lots of six parts there
Front sway bar from 74' and later 911.
VIN not on Stazak's list

They should have at least used a early chassis to do the conversion if the six got totaled back in the day. This car will end up in a Police impound yard.

Parts car at best...

Ebay should pull the auction.

From the Ebay listing:
"Winning bidder understands the purchase is a used vehicle with faults consistent with It's use and age, especially antique, classic and racing vehicles. Unforeseen problems may exist that Fast440 and the vehicle owner are unaware of, and the description of the above vehicle is based on a signed agreement between the vehicle owner and Fast440. Further description is based on observations by Fast440 agents through our familiarity with above vehicle while it is on our showroom floor"

Well I guess the seller Fast440 is off the hook. Hope the vehicle owner is a real person who can be tracked down after the auction.

I don't think they are off the hook as they have been warned/told that it is a VIN Swap

Hi Gustl,

that car has been offered in Germany for a ridiculous price, too....

Kaeferfreund

I love the cut out window were the original 6 vin was welded in from the back and disguised with black paint. You can see were drip funnels were once mounted and you get one of the funnels as a bonus !

Remember this old thread about the morality/legality of moving VIN tags from a rusty hulk -6 to a clean -4? If not, go back and check out it out ... makes for interesting reading.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=195566

Body is early 1974. Someone went through a lot of trouble to fool nobody. If this dealer bought this car from someone or some auction, they are getting that sick, sinking feeling right about now.

How about the blue car @ 62k? Reserve appears to have been met with time left. Wow!

This car definitely has a later front clip at the minimum. I do not see what everyone is talking about re the front fender VIN being seamed in. It looks to me like the VIN was taped over and then the trunk sprayed and the tape pulled. I do not see evidence of that VIN being welded in. Also the rest of the observations are accurate, adjustable passenger seat (pretty common upgrade on early cars with the fixed seat). Door panels replaced, jack mount missing, etc. I am not sure about it being a chassis swap as I do not know about the rear trunk number sequences and my car is in VA so I can't remember where that number belongs.... But this car at the minimum needs a complete and thorough inspection by a 914-6 expert to determine what it is or isn't. Just having a COA does not make it a real Six.

Hmmm, just clicked on the link now and got ...

"This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing."

Adding some photos for future reference once the ebay listing is removed.


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Vin 9140430649 .
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Agree with you on the front vin, but if it got a front clip then it got a back clip as well since the chassis serial number is for a 4 cyl, both in sequence and location, and the jack mounts are for '73 and on. So then I guess the question would be does the passenger compartment floor show signs of having the adjustable passenger seat retro-fitted or did the car maybe get a center clip at some time?
So at the very least we have a car which during it's life needed a new front clip at some point a new rear clip at some point and a new pan at some point, but managed to hang on to it's original engine.

Ebay-auction ended ?

But the car -I'm sure it is- still available here:

http://dmcclassiccars.com/cars/porsche-9146/

I sent the seller a message early yesterday morning explaining that he/they should check out the providence of the car. I explained briefly why I thought the car was not a real 6. I received a terse response telling me to f off. I replied with a link to this thread. I’m not surprised he pulled it off eBay. It is possible the seller did not know the car wasn’t a real 6. Of course, that doesn’t explain why the car is for sale elsewhere as a real 6. I suspect they are limiting their exposure. Maybe they think if they sell it locally and the next owner doesn’t know it’s history, their problem is solved.

Here is the given reason for removing the ad from eBay.

I imagine the 'good folks' @allamericanclassic had a crappy morning. Perhaps one of the guests reading the thread. Damn smarty pants 914 owners!

Also, the front trunk ...




... and the adjustable passenger seat with the retractable seat belt and the '75-'76 weave pattern