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michael7810
I will be driving my 914 from Phoenix to WCR in June without AC. It will be 100F+ across the desert anytime the sun is up and 90F+ at night. Since the passenger seat will be empty I decided to make a foam cooler AC unit (aka redneck AC) to help on the drive. There are many youtube videos and they are all basically the same. Cut 2 holes in the top of a foam ice chest; stick a fan in 1 and a PVC nozzle on the other. Fill the chest with ice, turn the fan on and enjoy the coolness.
I had an old tower PC fan and the foam cooler and PVC cost about $10. It was 95F on Saturday so I let the car sit in the sun for a while, inside temp was 101F, loaded the RNAC unit with 30 lb of ice and went for a drive. I didn't check the outlet air temp but it was slightly cool at best. While traveling north the inside temp dropped to 94F after about 25 miles on the highway which was still uncomfortable but with the slightly cool air blowing on my face it felt doable. Holy crap, when I turned south to head home and the sun was on the windshield (original glass with zero tint/UV protection) the inside temp jumped back up to 101F and after a while I thru up the white flag and rolled the windows down. Temp with the windows down was a pleasant 97F.
After many hours of R&D while measuring the outlet temp I found that adding a second outlet hole gained a -2F improvement. I then moved the 2nd outlet close to the fan inlet to allow some recirculation and got another -2F improvement (-4F total). I put a 2nd fan inside the cooler to stir up the air inside but that did not reduce the outlet temp; neither did adding additional outlet holes or a second fan. I got another -3F improvement by adding a piece of pipe on the outlet hole inside the cooler to pick up the air closer to the ice...so now I'm at around 7F lower outlet temp and ready for another test drive.
My wife thinks I'm a total idiot for even thinking about driving my car across the desert in June and even more so once she looked at the contraption in the passenger footwell. I commented that she didn't have to worry about me picking up anyone along the way since there's no room beside the 40 Qt ice chest, to which she replied she never worries about me picking up anyone while driving my 914 even when the passenger seat available...ouch.
Any other ideas or experience out there? Is my wife right?
db9146
Have you ever through about using one of the racing cool shirts" that work on the same principle but circulate cold water in tubes instead? I think the problem is the "transfer" from the ice to the air.

Andyrew
I built an icechest system a long time ago that worked decently with ice, OK with ice packs.
Andyrew
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...chest&st=40


Im sure there are aftermarket things that are similar and much nicer.
zipedadoo
This time of year with the low humidity, I'd think a swamp cooler system would work better, at least while you're at speed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/172374330492?...p;ul_noapp=true

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q...XZqX6NwdlB5PnMA

dlkawashima
I used a FlexiFreeze Ice Vest with an extra set of blue ice packs to use on a trip. Temps were in the mid-90's through some sections of the trip but I was fine. The first set of packs lasted about 60-90 minutes, somewhere in that range. The second set (the blue ice packs), even though I had stored them in a cooler, lasted only about 30 minutes. So I was able to stay cool for about 1-1/2 to 2 hours. Not bad, but then there's the problem of how to refreeze them.

One thing that might work with this method is buying bulk crushed ice along the way and putting the ice in extra large ziploc freezer bags. The vest has 3 large pockets where the freeze packs go, so I would think the freezer bags could act as a decent substitute (might not be very comfortable on your back, however).


IPB Image
Mowog4
I tried the ice chest thing years ago in an original Mini Cooper, didn't work well at all. I would go the swamp cooler route. If the trek through the desert is at night shouldn't be too bad
ed
Dave_Darling
Swamp cooler might work; the desert is dry enough that the water should evaporate pretty quickly!

When I drove through the desert to Parade 2014, I had an ice-chest with ice (and drinks) in the passenger's footwell. I had a washcloth that I would put into the chest and it would absorb the 32F meltwater. Put that on the back of my neck, and it kept things livable. Not super pleasant by any means, but I did survive.

I should have used a dish towel or a hand towel; the washcloth didn't seem large enough. And taking two so you can switch them might be a decent idea.

It was still hot as f**k, but I got through it. I had the roof on, and the windows partly open. Not doing the many-hours-of-driving with the roof off thing again.

Earplugs were also a brain-saver, BTW. All of the wind noise in particular gets to you.

--DD
Andyrew
I found with my ice chest you needed to have a flow path for the air, thats why I used wire mesh. If you could do a large chest with a spiral and and fill it with 10lb ice bags every couple hours you would probably be able to stay pretty cool. Also I found direct air to be the most effective.

Elliot Cannon
Try one of these. http://www.b-kool.net/
mgphoto
Try dry ice much colder, don't close the windows all the way, CO2 you know.
PanelBilly
QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Mar 20 2017, 04:52 PM) *

Try one of these. http://www.b-kool.net/



This looks good. Not too big either. Little more $ than I'd like to spend, but if I was planning a drive in the hot sun, might be worth the investment.
JmuRiz
I came expecting a VW swamp cooler too. You can always sell it to a beetle or bus guy when finished with it.
tom.esh
My daughter's softball team love the froggtogg cooling pads. They really seem to cool the girls down between innings. We keep a small cooler of ice water to wet the towels.
.https://www.froggtoggs.com/cooling.html
bfrymire
When I saw the title, I thought this was what I was going to see...

Elliot Cannon
QUOTE(mgphoto @ Mar 20 2017, 03:56 PM) *

Try dry ice much colder, don't close the windows all the way, CO2 you know.


For some of these to work efficiently, you should add a little water. Adding water to dry ice in a closed environment? Maybe not such a good idea. Unless you want to pull over and yellowsleep[1].gif laugh.gif
thelogo
Shouldn't you be more concerned with
The car running hot in those high temps roads
Sun beating down in the middle of no where?

Thats me but


I would say your using icebox is better then straining
The engine even further so beerchug.gif there


But i would just use a cold mister and fans instead

Or

Install a corvette air conditioning in it , coldest strongest a-c
I ever felt

Or better yet

Get a old covette with a cold ac
And put the 914 on a trailer and tow it with the vette.
Should have plenty of power to tow
Ac is killer
And you could pull up to wrc and im sure everyone would be like wtf WTF.gif w00t.gif
michael7810
QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Mar 20 2017, 04:52 PM) *

Try one of these. http://www.b-kool.net/


Damn you Elliot - I was all set to make the best of my foam ice chest and now, thanks to you, all I can think about is I want a B-Kool. I can use it in my 914, 944 if (when) the AC craps out, garage, tent, workshop, house when the power goes out, dog house when the wife sees how much I paid for it...plus it supports an Arizona business beerchug.gif
thelogo
QUOTE(db9146 @ Mar 20 2017, 12:41 PM) *

Have you ever through about using one of the racing cool shirts" that work on the same principle but circulate cold water in tubes instead? I think the problem is the "transfer" from the ice to the air.






+1 on that

And this will make you feel faster too
Especially if you car is yellow +
Elliot Cannon
QUOTE(michael7810 @ Mar 20 2017, 07:38 PM) *

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Mar 20 2017, 04:52 PM) *

Try one of these. http://www.b-kool.net/


Damn you Elliot - I was all set to make the best of my foam ice chest and now, thanks to you, all I can think about is I want a B-Kool. I can use it in my 914, 944 if (when) the AC craps out, garage, tent, workshop, house when the power goes out, dog house when the wife sees how much I paid for it...plus it supports an Arizona business beerchug.gif

Always glad to help. laugh.gif
Mowog4
QUOTE(michael7810 @ Mar 20 2017, 12:22 PM) *

I will be driving my 914 from Phoenix to WCR in June without AC. It will be 100F+ across the desert anytime the sun is up and 90F+ at night. Since the passenger seat will be empty I decided to make a foam cooler AC unit (aka redneck AC) to help on the drive. There are many youtube videos and they are all basically the same. Cut 2 holes in the top of a foam ice chest; stick a fan in 1 and a PVC nozzle on the other. Fill the chest with ice, turn the fan on and enjoy the coolness.
I had an old tower PC fan and the foam cooler and PVC cost about $10. It was 95F on Saturday so I let the car sit in the sun for a while, inside temp was 101F, loaded the RNAC unit with 30 lb of ice and went for a drive. I didn't check the outlet air temp but it was slightly cool at best. While traveling north the inside temp dropped to 94F after about 25 miles on the highway which was still uncomfortable but with the slightly cool air blowing on my face it felt doable. Holy crap, when I turned south to head home and the sun was on the windshield (original glass with zero tint/UV protection) the inside temp jumped back up to 101F and after a while I thru up the white flag and rolled the windows down. Temp with the windows down was a pleasant 97F.
After many hours of R&D while measuring the outlet temp I found that adding a second outlet hole gained a -2F improvement. I then moved the 2nd outlet close to the fan inlet to allow some recirculation and got another -2F improvement (-4F total). I put a 2nd fan inside the cooler to stir up the air inside but that did not reduce the outlet temp; neither did adding additional outlet holes or a second fan. I got another -3F improvement by adding a piece of pipe on the outlet hole inside the cooler to pick up the air closer to the ice...so now I'm at around 7F lower outlet temp and ready for another test drive.
My wife thinks I'm a total idiot for even thinking about driving my car across the desert in June and even more so once she looked at the contraption in the passenger footwell. I commented that she didn't have to worry about me picking up anyone along the way since there's no room beside the 40 Qt ice chest, to which she replied she never worries about me picking up anyone while driving my 914 even when the passenger seat available...ouch.
Any other ideas or experience out there? Is my wife right?


How many cars from Phoenix are going Up? I have always been a fan of group poor decision making.
Andyrew
It could be one more smile.gif
76-914
QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Mar 20 2017, 04:52 PM) *

Try one of these. http://www.b-kool.net/

Aircraft AC requirements are quite a bit lower than an auto in the desert at < 1000' AGL. OAT @ 5500+ AGL vs OAT in the Mojave. The only advantage I can see is the 35mph fan it uses. confused24.gif
db9146
How 'bout a B-Kool in the front trunk with the output tied into the dash vents for better distribution and control with the remote. Then you have more passenger space....sounds like a good summer solution.
zipedadoo
The b-kool only lasts for an hour or two with 20 lbs of ice

Read that some pilots use if for take off and then switch it of at altitude saving the rest of the ice for landing.
SirAndy
I have one of them spray bottles with an electric fan. Creates a nice mist that cools you off.

You'll have plenty of cold water in that chest to last you through the desert.
driving.gif

IPB Image

Coondog

I have made several trips in my 914 from Apple Valley "Desert" to Phoenix "Desert".
Takes me about 5 hours. As long as I am on the freeway by 3am it's not that bad, your concern is not wanting to drive up the Cajon Pass in the heat of the day.
Just remember you will be cold in Mammoth so it will equal out.

Bottom line is your going to be driving a long time.
76-914
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Mar 21 2017, 12:31 PM) *

I have one of them spray bottles with an electric fan. Creates a nice mist that cools you off.

You'll have plenty of cold water in that chest to last you through the desert.
driving.gif

IPB Image

This makes sense. Before I added AC I used a "I can't believe its butter" spray bottle. The must is so fine It doesn't soak you or your shirt and instant gratification.
Evil Older Brother
The thread makes me laugh as there is an "ice chest" and then a "chest full of ice".

Personally, whenever I put an ice pack on my chest my nipples get hard.

That leaves to other things and well, we could end up in the sandbox. ;-)

My 914 had this thing called a removable top and with the windows down, the top off and a hat, eastern Washington heat was nice.
Front yard mechanic
2-60 air works best
Dave_Darling
Taking the top off is not a good option when temperatures are in the ~110F range and there is zero cloud cover or shade.

Once the temps get into triple digits (F), the 2x60 AC feels worse than nothing.

--DD
Rand
QUOTE(Evil Older Brother @ Mar 21 2017, 01:15 PM) *
The thread makes me laugh...My 914 had this thing called a removable top and with the windows down, the top off and a hat


Experience it before you laugh about it. Works great in the PNW. Not so much in, let's say Vegas, Phoenix, etc. If it's 113 degrees, you'll want that roof back on, the hat tossed, and be spraying yourself with cold water and dousing your tshirt, still miserably hot.

Having said that, now that I'm back in the PNW, I'm jonesing for a plexi top from 914rubber and heat exchangers! biggrin.gif
JustinMeier
You just sweat, and have lots of cold water to replace the sweat!
michael7810
QUOTE(Coondog @ Mar 21 2017, 12:32 PM) *

I have made several trips in my 914 from Apple Valley "Desert" to Phoenix "Desert".
Takes me about 5 hours. As long as I am on the freeway by 3am it's not that bad, your concern is not wanting to drive up the Cajon Pass in the heat of the day.
Just remember you will be cold in Mammoth so it will equal out.

Bottom line is your going to be driving a long time.

Based on your picture, you have way more experience dealing with heat than I do. I can make it leaving at OH DARK-THIRTY with plenty of ice water, however if possible, I would like to enjoy the drive.
michael7810
Based on what I've read here, tested in my car/garage, and looking at a couple off the shelf units like B-Kool, to get the most out of an ice chest AC I have to cool the air using the water/ice at the bottom of the cooler versus my current design which blows incoming air across the top of the ice; and get a strong fan that blows directly on me. Two methods I've read about are 1) pump cold water from the bottom of the ice chest thru a heater core which cools the cabin air which I believe I can accomplish inside the ice chest similar to the B-Kool product or 2) place a turbo intercooler at the bottom of the ice chest and pump the incoming air thru the intercooler and out the vent. Either design will cost under $100 using a marine engine compartment vent blower and bilge pump or universal intercooler off eBay. I like the intercooler idea better because it has fewer moving parts and I believe I could use dry ice as an option since the cooler would be sealed preventing the CO2 from leaking into the cabin.
I'm going to cogitate on this for a week 'cause I have a couple honey-do projects to finish and out of town company this weekend. Hopefully I'll get back on this next week as I would like to have a working unit to test on the Rt 66 drive the 3rd week in April. Stay tuned.
Kansas 914
QUOTE(michael7810 @ Mar 22 2017, 07:33 PM) *

Stay tuned.

popcorn[1].gif
Andyrew
I think if you combined what you built with a mister you would be able to have a fairly effective system.
The question would be mist before ice or after.
flmont
I know this sounds crazy,.But, could you install a 110 converter and then use the smallest AC unit possible...Or then again maybe just a ICE hat....Good luck driving.gif !!!,. Frank
Elliot Cannon
The Bkool unit works about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. You can carry extra ice in the front trunk (if you have one) to replenish the ice you have already used. This is actually a pretty good system and yes, pilots use it primarily for take off and landing or any time they are on the ground in a hot climate. You can turn it off when at altitude because it is usually much cooler once you are in the air. I used a home made system not unlike the Bkool system and I could get about an hour of really cool air with a much less efficient system with a much smaller ice chest. The limiting factor is how much ice you can carry. I think it has a great potential and I might try the Bkool myself this summer.
peteyd
This is designed for the 911, but perhaps it could be used in the 914

Kansas 914
QUOTE(flmont @ Mar 22 2017, 10:44 PM) *

I know this sounds crazy,.But, could you install a 110 converter and then use the smallest AC unit possible...Or then again maybe just a ICE hat....Good luck driving.gif !!!,. Frank

I have been waiting for this!

Not my car.......

Click to view attachment
Kansas 914
QUOTE(peteyd @ Mar 23 2017, 06:22 AM) *

This is designed for the 911, but perhaps it could be used in the 914



I think this is VERY promising but the product still isn't listed on their website - there is no price either.
michael7810
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 22 2017, 09:25 PM) *

I think if you combined what you built with a mister you would be able to have a fairly effective system.
The question would be mist before ice or after.


I thought about a mister inside the cooler but figured it would blow too much water out the vent...plus living in AZ where we used to cool our home with evap coolers I've learned they work great when the humidity is low, they suck when the humidity is high, and the house would smell musty by the end of the summer. But it's cheap enough to test so I may try it anyway. What do you mean by mister before or after ice? I would pump water from the bottom of the ice chest to the top and blow it out a mist nozzle. Maybe add an evap cooler pad under the outlet to catch some of the water.
Thanks.
mepstein
QUOTE(Kansas 914 @ Mar 23 2017, 09:16 AM) *

QUOTE(peteyd @ Mar 23 2017, 06:22 AM) *

This is designed for the 911, but perhaps it could be used in the 914



I think this is VERY promising but the product still isn't listed on their website - there is no price either.

I'm betting $3,500 - 4K. Maybe more. It's designed for the 911 crowd. They aren't going to give it away.
Kansas 914
QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 23 2017, 08:12 AM) *

I'm betting $3,500 - 4K. Maybe more. It's designed for the 911 crowd. They aren't going to give it away.

I would not bet against that price - you are probably right.

OK - back to the ice chest solution for me.
Andyrew
QUOTE(michael7810 @ Mar 23 2017, 06:57 AM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 22 2017, 09:25 PM) *

I think if you combined what you built with a mister you would be able to have a fairly effective system.
The question would be mist before ice or after.


I thought about a mister inside the cooler but figured it would blow too much water out the vent...plus living in AZ where we used to cool our home with evap coolers I've learned they work great when the humidity is low, they suck when the humidity is high, and the house would smell musty by the end of the summer. But it's cheap enough to test so I may try it anyway. What do you mean by mister before or after ice? I would pump water from the bottom of the ice chest to the top and blow it out a mist nozzle. Maybe add an evap cooler pad under the outlet to catch some of the water.
Thanks.


I mean mist at the cooler air entrance or at the cooler air exit so the mist has more chance to influence the air its surrounding. I dont know, just a theory, I think testing for nozzle position in the system would be required for maximum efficiency.
peteyd
QUOTE(Kansas 914 @ Mar 23 2017, 06:13 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 23 2017, 08:12 AM) *

I'm betting $3,500 - 4K. Maybe more. It's designed for the 911 crowd. They aren't going to give it away.

I would not bet against that price - you are probably right.

OK - back to the ice chest solution for me.


You guys are spot on. I saw the product at the LA Lit show. Price is $3700.

Click to view attachment
mepstein
QUOTE(peteyd @ Mar 23 2017, 10:52 AM) *

QUOTE(Kansas 914 @ Mar 23 2017, 06:13 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 23 2017, 08:12 AM) *

I'm betting $3,500 - 4K. Maybe more. It's designed for the 911 crowd. They aren't going to give it away.

I would not bet against that price - you are probably right.

OK - back to the ice chest solution for me.


You guys are spot on. I saw the product at the LA Lit show. Price is $3700.



Im going to need that sooner or later smile.gif
Steve
QUOTE(peteyd @ Mar 23 2017, 07:52 AM) *

QUOTE(Kansas 914 @ Mar 23 2017, 06:13 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 23 2017, 08:12 AM) *

I'm betting $3,500 - 4K. Maybe more. It's designed for the 911 crowd. They aren't going to give it away.

I would not bet against that price - you are probably right.

OK - back to the ice chest solution for me.


You guys are spot on. I saw the product at the LA Lit show. Price is $3700.

Click to view attachment

I've been following this. I also met the guy at the lit show. He said he would sell the controller and electric compressor by itself. You could add your own evaporator and condenser. He said t should be available in the June time frame.
JmuRiz
I think he's still working out the final specs etc.
Once it's figured out, maybe we can ask him if it can work in a 914 (as long as there's a good alternator).

There's a good thread on the Pelican Parts 911 board.
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