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malcolm2
I noticed it at lunch today. The blinker indicator in the dash would flash 4 or 5 times, then stop.

Coming home I tried the e-flashers. Same deal. Maybe 7 flashes then OUT. Try the left side, 2 flashes, right side 4 flashes.... then OUT.

Now I get no flashes at all. Got a few honey do things to knockout this afternoon then I will start poking around.

Figured I'd start with the fuse, then relay. Seeing how it is the flasher and the blinker, I will rule out the lever and such in the column. How do you test a relay anyway?

Chime in with some thoughts.

Thanks,
Clark
malcolm2
I have checked the fuse....all is well.

I pulled the flasher relay and now I need to figure out a test method.

Here is what I think I have determined from the pelican current diagrams.

4 prongs on the relay.

31 = ground
49 = power in
49a = power out to the lights
C = power out to the dash indicator

Click to view attachment
malcolm2
So here is my attempt at testing this baby. Seem correct? NO CLICK = BAD?

I used a 12V drill battery.....
+ on batt to 49
- on batt to 31
relay was quiet, no clicking.

with 12v applied as above:
VOM + to 49a
VOM - to 31
VOM reads 12.8V

VOM + to C
VOM - to 31
VOM reads: jumping around, slowly rising from 6V to 9V

I am thinking I should use a light vs the digital VOM since it may not react to the "flash".

Click to view attachment
Valy
Check the voltage feeding the relay in the car. I would suspect that to be low, so maybe a voltage regulator or alternator issue.

And check the blinker fluid too.
malcolm2
QUOTE(Valy @ May 16 2017, 08:50 AM) *

Check the voltage feeding the relay in the car. I would suspect that to be low, so maybe a voltage regulator or alternator issue.

And check the blinker fluid too.


I have been thru 2 alternators since 2013, the one mounted now probably has 7000 miles on it. Same goes for the regulator. I put a new one on at the same time, Behr (SP) brand I believe. I did not see any other symptoms of either part. I sure hope that the alt is ok, I HATE removing that sucker.

The new Air/Fuel Gauge has a volt meter, so I can easily check that again. During my drives this weekend it was charging at 14V.

I have the relay with me at work, so I will take your suggestion home this afternoon and measure.

I am not a fan of the blinker fluid design, so I removed the reservoir in 2013. piratenanner.gif
Spoke
Below is the simplified schematic for the turnsignal network in the '74-'76 914 with the single L-R tachometer turnsignal indicator.

To test the flasher:

1) apply 12V on 49
2) connect ground on 31
3) connect known good turnsignal bulb from 49a to 31; The flasher should flash.

Don't worry about C/K2, it's only drives the tach indicator bulb. If the flasher won't flash following the above test, C/K2 operation will not work either.
malcolm2
QUOTE(Spoke @ May 16 2017, 10:31 AM) *

Below is the simplified schematic for the turnsignal network in the '74-'76 914 with the single L-R tachometer turnsignal indicator.

To test the flasher:

1) apply 12V on 49
2) connect ground on 31

3) connect known good turnsignal bulb from 49a to 31; The flasher should flash.

Don't worry about C/K2, it's only drives the tach indicator bulb. If the flasher won't flash following the above test, C/K2 operation will not work either.


Thanks, I did find a similar diagram in a post, but it had a 911 tach with R and L indicators. IIRC it did not have the brake stuff on it, and IIRC my brake flasher is also not flashing with the hand brake pulled up.

Shouldn't the relay start "clicking" when 1) and 2) are done above?
Spoke
QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 16 2017, 11:37 AM) *

QUOTE(Spoke @ May 16 2017, 10:31 AM) *

Below is the simplified schematic for the turnsignal network in the '74-'76 914 with the single L-R tachometer turnsignal indicator.

To test the flasher:

1) apply 12V on 49
2) connect ground on 31

3) connect known good turnsignal bulb from 49a to 31; The flasher should flash.

Don't worry about C/K2, it's only drives the tach indicator bulb. If the flasher won't flash following the above test, C/K2 operation will not work either.


Thanks, I did find a similar diagram in a post, but it had a 911 tach with R and L indicators.

Shouldn't the relay start "clicking" when 1) and 2) are done above?


1) and 2) only apply power to the relay. 3) applies a bulb load to start the flashing.

malcolm2
QUOTE(Spoke @ May 16 2017, 10:42 AM) *


1) and 2) only apply power to the relay. 3) applies a bulb load to start the flashing.


makes sense, and should be easy to test on or off the car.

So, if no flash, or click, relay is bad, correct?

Thanks,

Clark
Spoke
Yes, with one bulb load the relay should flash.
malcolm2
QUOTE(Spoke @ May 16 2017, 01:23 PM) *

Yes, with one bulb load the relay should flash.



Good News, Bad News, I guess...

the relay worked on the bench. Using 49a I got a bulb to flash and of course the relay clicked.

I know you said not to worry about the C terminal, but for giggles, I put the bulb connection on the C term and nothing happened.

is that expected? Or maybe half of my relay is bad? blink.gif
914_teener
There was a great write up on the flasher relay itself. It is my understanding is there are actually two windings there. It needs a load for the other winding to work.

I wish I could find it as my 73 had a similar problem. I wish I could find that write up and also a current diagram for the 73 as the 74 are different.

Having a contact, ground or bulb problem can cause issues.
timothy_nd28
7 flashes is plenty, just limit yourself to right turns
malcolm2
QUOTE(timothy_nd28 @ May 16 2017, 02:35 PM) *

7 flashes is plenty, just limit yourself to right turns


I only use the blinker if I see a cop. driving-girl.gif

But I gotta have the flashers to park in a handi-cap spot. shades.gif
malcolm2
QUOTE(914_teener @ May 16 2017, 02:16 PM) *


I wish I could find it as my 73 had a similar problem. I wish I could find that write up and also a current diagram for the 73 as the 74 are different.



And I have a 75, with some HO-MADE wiring going on.
malcolm2
OK... The bench test results are above. I just installed the flasher relay into the car.

Turned the key on and the BRAKE light is flashing and the relay is clicking. as expected

Start the car

All blinkers work as expected

E-flashers work.

Here is the question.

49 - 31 I get 12.8v with the key on and or the car running.

I release the brake and the clicking and flashing stops.

BUT with the car still running and the relay inserted, but the terminals are accessible. I check the voltage between ground and 49a and I get 13V

I check the voltage between ground and C and I get 13V.
[b] No clicking, nothing flashing.

Is that right? What is going on?
malcolm2
delete FLOOD post.
Valy
C will only flash if there is load (bulb connected) on 49A.

Do your indicators stop blinking when the dash light stops blinking?
If not, check the grounding of the indicator bulbs.

BTW, you don't have LEDs , do you?
malcolm2
QUOTE(Valy @ May 16 2017, 08:54 PM) *

C will only flash if there is load (bulb connected) on 49A.

Do your indicators stop blinking when the dash light stops blinking?
If not, check the grounding of the indicator bulbs.

BTW, you don't have LEDs , do you?


After i re-connected the relay everything started working properly. No LEDs.

So i guess you are saying if the big bulbs are out, the dash indicator won't work either?

That was my issue on the bench. Would have needed to wire up 2 bulbs. But I don't follow the readings when the relay was mounted and the car was running. C and 49a showed voltage.

Inquiring minds want to know.
914_teener
Found the thread:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...6&hl=signal
falcor75
I have a similar but still different problem.

I installed Spokes front boards about a week ago. Now when I signal to turn left or right the tach indicator light only flashes once but the turn signals keep flashing as they should.

If I turn on the emergency flasher then the indicator light flashes the whole time along with the turn signals.
Valy
QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 16 2017, 07:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Valy @ May 16 2017, 08:54 PM) *

C will only flash if there is load (bulb connected) on 49A.

Do your indicators stop blinking when the dash light stops blinking?
If not, check the grounding of the indicator bulbs.

BTW, you don't have LEDs , do you?


After i re-connected the relay everything started working properly. No LEDs.

So i guess you are saying if the big bulbs are out, the dash indicator won't work either?

That was my issue on the bench. Would have needed to wire up 2 bulbs. But I don't follow the readings when the relay was mounted and the car was running. C and 49a showed voltage.

Inquiring minds want to know.


When one bulb burns, the blinking will be faster. When both burn, the dash light will not blink.

It seems you had a bad contract that caused a voltage drop at the relay. It solved itself by removing and reinstating the relay.
Clean the contacts.
Spoke
QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 16 2017, 03:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Spoke @ May 16 2017, 01:23 PM) *

Yes, with one bulb load the relay should flash.



Good News, Bad News, I guess...

the relay worked on the bench. Using 49a I got a bulb to flash and of course the relay clicked.

I know you said not to worry about the C terminal, but for giggles, I put the bulb connection on the C term and nothing happened.

is that expected? Or maybe half of my relay is bad? blink.gif


OK, sounds like your flasher is working. If it flashes with one bulb connected it is functional.

About connecting the bulb to C (I assume from C to ground), in your car there is always a bulb connected from C to ground ('74-'76 914 only). It is the bulb in the tach. This is why I said don't worry about the C terminal until you test the flasher functionality.

Now that you've proved the flasher works, to test C, connect power to 49, ground to 31, a bulb to 49a to ground, and a small marker bulb between C and ground.

C should light the marker bulb when the flasher is flashing.
Spoke
QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 16 2017, 06:37 PM) *

I release the brake and the clicking and flashing stops.


Now you may be getting closer to your issue. Brakes are not connected to the flasher system at all. Note the schematic I posted has no components or connections to the brake system.

I would guess there are some grounding or other wiring issues in your car. The flasher does not seem to be 100% the culprit.
Spoke
QUOTE(falcor75 @ May 17 2017, 01:04 AM) *

I have a similar but still different problem.

I installed Spokes front boards about a week ago. Now when I signal to turn left or right the tach indicator light only flashes once but the turn signals keep flashing as they should.

If I turn on the emergency flasher then the indicator light flashes the whole time along with the turn signals.


Hi Mats,

Do you have a single L-R tach turnsignal indicator or the separate L and R indicators?

The indicator light not flashing is common when switching to LED turnsignals. Since the flasher has a dual function of turnsignal flasher and brake warning flasher, the C pin which drives the tachometer turnsignal indicators does not activate when the brake warning flasher function is used (ebrake or MC warning switch active).

Thus when you change to LED turnsignals, the circuitry driving the C pin doesn't fully engage and thus doesn't flash when you put the L or R turnsignals on. For 4-way flashing, the load of all the LED turnsignals (Front and rear, right and left) is enough to activate the C-pin.

Generic flasher EP26 is pin compatible with the 914's flasher. The difference is the C-pin is not functional in the off-the-shelf EP26. I have EP26 in stock and I modify EP26 to drive the C-pin.
malcolm2
QUOTE(Spoke @ May 17 2017, 06:32 AM) *

QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 16 2017, 06:37 PM) *

I release the brake and the clicking and flashing stops.


Now you may be getting closer to your issue. Brakes are not connected to the flasher system at all. Note the schematic I posted has no components or connections to the brake system.

I would guess there are some grounding or other wiring issues in your car. The flasher does not seem to be 100% the culprit.


There is only one flasher relay in the car. The brake light flashes and it clicks until I release the hand brake, so it has to be connected to the flasher relay, right?

Your diagram and this one..... show the brake light getting 12v from 49a? Am I reading that right? I have backdated my tach and have R and L blinker lights, so my set up is close to this.

Click to view attachment
LowBridge
This post is way to long... simple answer as we have this problem all over New England... your blinker fluid is just low, so fill it up and the problems will go away. for every ones convenience I have attached a coupon lol-2.gif
IPB Image
Spoke
QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 19 2017, 10:10 AM) *

QUOTE(Spoke @ May 17 2017, 06:32 AM) *

QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 16 2017, 06:37 PM) *

I release the brake and the clicking and flashing stops.


Now you may be getting closer to your issue. Brakes are not connected to the flasher system at all. Note the schematic I posted has no components or connections to the brake system.

I would guess there are some grounding or other wiring issues in your car. The flasher does not seem to be 100% the culprit.


There is only one flasher relay in the car. The brake light flashes and it clicks until I release the hand brake, so it has to be connected to the flasher relay, right?

Your diagram and this one..... show the brake light getting 12v from 49a? Am I reading that right? I have backdated my tach and have R and L blinker lights, so my set up is close to this.

Click to view attachment


I wrote:
Brakes are not connected to the flasher system at all.

You wrote:
Your diagram and this one..... show the brake light getting 12v from 49a?

You are right and I am not exactly wrong. beerchug.gif The brake light getting 12V from 49a is the brake warning indicator lamp in the multi-gauge unit which includes the fuel gauge.

As far as the brake pedal and the exterior brake lights are concerned, there is a connection between the exterior brake lights and the rear turnsignals. The connection is the connection of the ground circuit in the rear lamp fixtures on the vehicle.

Both turnsignal and brake lights share a common ground. If that ground is somehow compromised, related issues could happen. Also it could be with the rear light fixtures that the 5 spade connectors are incorrectly connected. I have mis-wired the rear fixtures a couple of times. Probably why there are many threads with folks asking which wire goes on which terminal on the rear light fixture.


malcolm2
Great.... I think we were both right, just referring to different parts. Thanks for your help.

It was a mystery that needed to be repaired, and it mysteriously repaired itself.

I wish that would happen more often.
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