Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Could someone take me to school on the merits of a bolt-on vs welding 914/6 engne mount?
914World.com > The 914 Forums > 914World Garage
Tdskip
Good morning - just doing some planning here but it looks (to my undereducated eyes anyway) that the weld-in and bolt-in mounts are similar. Do people use the Patrick Motorsports one simply to avoid welding?

It looks like a bolt-in one would need holes drilled in the firewall to mount it?

Thanks in advance for the schooling.

mepstein
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 12 2018, 09:11 AM) *

Good morning - just doing some planning here but it looks (to my undereducated eyes anyway) that the weld-in and bolt-in mounts are similar. Do people use the Patrick Motorsports one simply to avoid welding?

It looks like a bolt-in one would need holes drilled in the firewall to mount it?

Thanks in advance for the schooling.

Usually the bolts are there to place the mount until its welded. The PMS firewall mount gets welded.
worn
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 12 2018, 06:11 AM) *

Good morning - just doing some planning here but it looks (to my undereducated eyes anyway) that the weld-in and bolt-in mounts are similar. Do people use the Patrick Motorsports one simply to avoid welding?

It looks like a bolt-in one would need holes drilled in the firewall to mount it?

Thanks in advance for the schooling.


I think it is really a matter of preference and situation. Welding will require some repainting, so is an excellent choice for a car that is going through a lot of rustoration. I would imagine some feel that a weld on is more reliable, but I doubt that if a mount fails it is due to the bolts.
Tdskip
Good morning - so when Patrick Motorsports says bolt-in what they are really saying is;

offer the mount up
mark the bold holes
drill the bolt holes
mount it
then weld it

Like that?
mepstein
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 12 2018, 09:26 AM) *

Good morning - so when Patrick Motorsports says bolt-in what they are really saying is;

offer the mount up
mark the bold holes
drill the bolt holes
mount it
then weld it

Like that?

My mistake. I looked at their site and they do have a bolt in firewall mount. Personally, I would weld in and be done but it's your choice.

Naro914/Bob Saville's is $100 cheaper and as nice or better.
Steve
Correct. All the mounts are welded in, but the cross bar motor mount that uses the stock 914-4 early motor mounts. Also known as the “quick six”
MSDS used to make the quick six mount. I ran it for over 10 years with no problems.
The quick six only works with headers. I switched to the Rich Johnson mount when I switched to heat exchangers. The firewall mount moves the weight forward compared to the quick six for better overall weight distribution
Tdskip
QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 12 2018, 08:33 AM) *

My mistake. I looked at their site and they do have a bolt in firewall mount. Personally, I would weld in and be done but it's your choice.

Naro914/Bob Saville's is $100 cheaper and as nice or better.


Ah, got it. I am obviously a newbie here but I would tend to agree, once it's located it's very little additional work to seam weld it in place and the additional strength would seem to be a good thing.

Thank you for the suggestion on the other options
Steve
QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 12 2018, 06:33 AM) *

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 12 2018, 09:26 AM) *

Good morning - so when Patrick Motorsports says bolt-in what they are really saying is;

offer the mount up
mark the bold holes
drill the bolt holes
mount it
then weld it

Like that?

My mistake. I looked at their site and they do have a bolt in firewall mount. Personally, I would weld in and be done but it's your choice.

Naro914/Bob Saville's is $100 cheaper and as nice or better.

Interesting.. I am not familiar with that one.
Tdskip
QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 12 2018, 08:37 AM) *

Correct. All the mounts are welded in, but the cross bar motor mount that uses the stock 914-4 early motor mounts. Also known as the “quick six”
MSDS used to make the quick six mount. I ran it for over 10 years with no problems.
The quick six only works with headers. I switched to the Rich Johnson mount when I switched to heat exchangers. The firewall mount moves the weight forward compared to the quick six for better overall weight distribution


Thank you Steve, appreciate the additional information.
jd74914
QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 12 2018, 09:39 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 12 2018, 06:33 AM) *

My mistake. I looked at their site and they do have a bolt in firewall mount. Personally, I would weld in and be done but it's your choice.

Naro914/Bob Saville's is $100 cheaper and as nice or better.

Interesting.. I am not familiar with that one.

It's this one: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=324206

Looks quite nice, especially considering the better price.

JOEPROPER
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 12 2018, 09:43 AM) *

QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 12 2018, 09:39 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 12 2018, 06:33 AM) *

My mistake. I looked at their site and they do have a bolt in firewall mount. Personally, I would weld in and be done but it's your choice.

Naro914/Bob Saville's is $100 cheaper and as nice or better.

Interesting.. I am not familiar with that one.

It's this one: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=324206

Looks quite nice, especially considering the better price.

This is the one I got. There was a GB not long ago. I haven't installed it yet, but looks to be great quality. Little less expensive than others that I've seen which is always a plus when heading into this type of project.
Cairo94507
I think Naro914 has a great mount. For me, if you have decided to go with a 6, weld the mount in and be done with it. There are a couple nice mounts out there. Take the time to research them and select the one that best fits your application.
patssle
Uhhhh - the PMS bolt in mount does NOT need to be welded. It's bolt in. They make 2 versions...one is welded and the other is bolt in.

The PMS (I have) or Naro one are very nice as the entire engine/transmission can pivoted down without removing them from of the car. Definitely has some benefits there!
sithot
The setups appear similar. Why is the NaroEscape better? Just curious.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
GeorgeRud
I believe that mb911 (Ben) is working on replicating the factory mount, though I don’t know how far along that project is currently. I have the Rich Johnson mount in my conversion but do like the concept of the ‘swingdown’ mounts.
JmuRiz
It just is biggrin.gif It's basically like an improved PMS mount, notice the fully boxed/braced ends where the engine mount 'tube' ties in.

Little items like that, as well as the $ savings adds up to a better value.
If I didn't already have an older style Johnson mount, I would have gone this route.
mepstein
QUOTE(GeorgeRud @ Feb 12 2018, 10:28 AM) *

I believe that mb911 (Ben) is working on replicating the factory mount, though I don’t know how far along that project is currently. I have the Rich Johnson mount in my conversion but do like the concept of the ‘swingdown’ mounts.

Ben's is more of a special order item if you want a bulkhead mount similar to factory.
I have one of the Naro mounts on a car and I purchased a 2nd for the next build.
Larmo63
I used the Patrick Motorsports weld in mount. I pre mounted it with a big f---king nut and bolt at it's weld in location, then welded it. You can't see the BF bolt head in this shot, but it is what is holding it to the lower firewall. After welding, I just left them in for insurance.

Suspenders AND a belt.Click to view attachment
billh1963
QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 12 2018, 09:33 AM) *

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 12 2018, 09:26 AM) *

Good morning - so when Patrick Motorsports says bolt-in what they are really saying is;

offer the mount up
mark the bold holes
drill the bolt holes
mount it
then weld it

Like that?

My mistake. I looked at their site and they do have a bolt in firewall mount. Personally, I would weld in and be done but it's your choice.

Naro914/Bob Saville's is $100 cheaper and as nice or better.


I have one of Bob's mounts on my '72 supporting a 2.7L six. Works very well
Tdskip
QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Feb 12 2018, 03:33 PM) *

I used the Patrick Motorsports weld in mount. I pre mounted it with a big f---king nut and bolt at it's weld in location, then welded it. You can't see the BF bolt head in this shot, but it is what is holding it to the lower firewall. After welding, I just left them in for insurance.

Suspenders AND a belt.Click to view attachment


Thank you for the picture. Did you drill through the firewall so you could mount the assembly and hold it in place prior to welding?
Larmo63
Yes, it is two layers thick there......
naro914
QUOTE(sithot @ Feb 12 2018, 10:19 AM) *

The setups appear similar. Why is the NaroEscape better? Just curious.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

I know I answered this in the Vendor section, but thought I’d answer here for those that don’t go there:
Yes, they are similar. Ours was made because I, personally, broke 2 of the Patrick Mounts. So a fabricator friend of mine who works for a race team designed a new and stronger mount with better gussets and weld points. He drew it up on CAD and put it through simulated stress testing to get it right (helps to have access to cool toys!) Once we got it finished, he created jigs and fixtures to make it repeatable because other people wanted what we had made. So we started selling them, though we've improved it slightly along the way.

We've used ours for over 10 years now with a high hp engine (360 hp) and never broken it.

-Bob
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2018 Invision Power Services, Inc.