Please see the seal picture around post #9


All,

I had all three, Floods, Leaks and Seeps. I fixed the Flood, yes the valve cover HAS to go on with the VW logo upside down! So on to the leaks. I am down to one leak, the oils is dripping off of the oil filter, a drop a minute or two while running. This leak is NOT coming from the top of the engine. Oil pressure sending unit, oil filler (OEL)and the distributor are all tight, no leaks.

Took out the oil filter, let the car leak until it stopped dripping and got under the car.

OK, I spent an hour under the car. Pretty certain that the car is leaking from ABOVE the oil filter mounting bracket. Top of the braket and the bottom part of the oil cooler are covered in oil. Sooooo, after reading everything about this within these pages I found that the oil filter bracket AND the oil cooler could be removed WITHOUT removing the engine. GREAT!

So raised the car high, put it on jackstands AND 4x4 blocks (belt and suspenders) and slid underneath. took the first nut off the oil filter mount, then I went for the one on the back of the bracket.
A - Easy Bracket nut
B - Nut on top of bracket - seen through a mirror
C - Oil Pressure regulator Access Port
D - Above the Oil Cleaner bracket - covered with oil.

Click to view attachment


As can be seen, the nut for the other half of the mount is overlapped by the oil cooler frame. THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A WRENCH ON THIS!

Not sure what to do now, live with the leak until it is time to remove the engine?

Ideas, suggestions,

Many thanks in advance.

BTW, the seeps are all from the pushrod tubes, only one looks really bad, not sure I would venture to pull the tubes with the engine in the car, though I know it can be done.

Oil cooler seals? I hunted a leak a few months ago. Looked like it was coming from the same area and ended up being the front crankshaft seal. Surprisingly easy the change with engine in.

Was the leak on BOTH side of the engine or concentrated in the oil cooler/oil filter area?

Same here.

The PR seals you have to disconnect the shift rod, clutch cable, etc., then you can lower the front of the engine 3-4" onto a stand and it's do-able in car.
CV cover gaskets I glue on with trim adhesive to make them stay put when installing. On my builds I weld 4 extra tabs, two bottom and two top just like the two on the VC from the factory.

On this job I'd just drop the complete engine, trans and exhaust as a unit, but I have the gear to do this easily.

Try changing the oil cooler seals first, crankshaft seal second. (easiest job first). Both can be done with the engine in the car.

OK, I am on it - cooler first! may have to buy some tiny tools!

Cheap HF or yard sale wrench, heat, bend and grind to the shape you need.
I have all kinds of custom wrenches and sockets that I have done this way.

I'll be with you in spirit ctc. Gonna attempt the seals on Thursday.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?????

This may be remedial for most of you, but here is my experience of changing an engine while the plane is in flight - or - changing the oil cooler gaskets (2) without taking the engine out.

1. started wrenching the closet of the 3 nuts.
2. realized that I needed a ratchet - one of those nifty ratches INSIDE the round, closed end of the wrench
3. Bought them and some 1/4 inch stuff (which was on sale)
4. Took off the first nut
5. Realized that the stud came off from the engine since the nut was kinda rusty
6. after thinking about this decided that I could live with it.
7. on to the second nut which is above the first toward the middle of the cooler
8. It TOO when loosened took the stud out.
9. came to the realization that if all 3 studs come out, I could remove the entire cooler! First would have to remove the oil cleaner bracket...........

HHHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmm

10. The last nut is at the thin end of the cooler, it came off like it is supposed to, the stud is still in the engine.
11. some oil came out, now the cooler is separated from the engine by 1/2 inch
12. Now, do I put 2 nuts on the 3rd stud and try and remove and properly clean the oil cooler or do I power through this by focusing on the gaskets only?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Do? Spend an hour or so and drop the engine, pull the fan shroud and be done with it. Then, while you're in there...or stay the course and hope the leak stops.

100%. Especially since you’re still becoming acquainted with the car. Engine out will also make it much easier to de-grease the old crud and inspect other stuff. There’s an engine drop video in my sig below... you can do it!

Hard not to agree with those who say drop the engine and look for other things to fix.

That said, if it were me (and it was a few years ago) since you are already in a position where you can replace the oil cooler seals, just finish the job and see if it solves your oil leak problem. If it fixes the leak and there's nothing else that needs attention, drive the car and enjoy it. However, if for some reason you feel you need to remove the oil cooler completely, then drop the engine.

If you mean pushrod tube seals, no lowering of the engine is required. You simply pull the tubes halfway out of the head, which lets you change the seals on the end. Then you can push them back in again.

--DD

Took the seals out - had to VERY gently pry the oil cooler from the engine and the gaskets fell into my face.

The are very different from the replacements - hard rubber, asymetric.
Click to view attachment

Is this the replacement style? Did I get the right parts? Sold to me from our favorite vendor.

My concern is the holes on either side are different sizes and since they both fell out I do not know which side is which.....

Looking for gasket guidance.

I agree. If you don’t have an acetylene rig, map gas will do for heating the wrench to cherry red. Then it moves like stiff clay. If needed you can use an angle or a bench grinder.

Which holes are different sizes? On the oil cooler or the seals? FWIW, all of the seals I’ve replaced look like the orange -ish one you posted

The old seals used to have the same shape as the new ones. They are deformed permanently after years of being installed/used.

Oil flood is back.

Pardon for the detailed post - I need therapy.

I was able to move the Oil Cooler about 1/2-3/4 of an inch leaving a gap between the cooler and the mounting bracket. Something was blocking it from opening further, there was perhaps another inch that was available. I took the bracket off of the other side. 3 nuts and a bracket bolt.

Of course the oil filter bracket is blocking the view of the holes where the gaskets seat. But you knew that

Worked for 2-3 hours on 2 different days under the car trying to get the gaskets in place without them falling back into my face.

Used the 14mm Wrench method, the long needle nose method and fingers until I used a large set of Hemostats which provided the clearance, got the top one in place - held it there and then closed the gap. Then squeezed the bottom one into place. closed the gap further.

Bolted the cooler back into place, added oil - started the engine. oil light stayed on (engine was running no more than 5-6 seconds) and looked under the car.

Oil Flood.

I now know that the oil cooler is leaking.

I may try this one more time since now I am an expert.

QUESTION: the wholes are tapered so these will not stick. I tried using the gasket seal that is mentioned in one of the threads - does not seem to have enough stick. So, HOW do you keep the gaskets in place before you start closing the gap between the bracket and the cooler?????

Thanks in advance for listening:

A bit of wheel bearing grease should keep them up against the engine side, which is shaped to fit the gasket.

Also try and clean the area out as best you can before putting the seals in with just a slight bit of bearing grease. There could be some debri that’s not allowing the new seals to seat properly.

Alright I'll be the jackass. . . . just drop the engine.

Working on a 914 engine is like racing. Sometimes you just have to go slow in a particular corner to get a good lap time. It seems like the hour or so to drop the engine is wasted time. It's not.

I know it seems like a pain to pull an engine but it is the fastest, least stressful way to do most of the work on a 914 engine. Plus, then you get easy access to . . . and can see other things that you might not have been able to see laying under it.

Got it, Drop Engine.

I plan on doing this in the fall, right now I do not have the tools or the space to do it "properly" - totally get the notion though. Will try one more time with bearing grease as the secret weapon.

Not sure I understand.

No special tools required other than a floor jack. Those are dirt cheap from HF. I used to do it with a small 1 ton hydraulic floor jack from K-Mart. If you have to tools to even contemplate an oil cooler project, you have what you need. Basic socket set, Vice Grips, and a hammer.

Jack stands. I hope you already are using a set if you're working under a vehicle.

Space. I've done engine drops in the dirt, outdoors. Use a piece of 1/2 or better yet 3/4 inch plywood to put under the car. Use this as the foundation upon which you can roll the hydraulic jack. "Extra" space needed is literally the 6 feet of space behind the car to accommodate the engine/trans when it's out. I've worked outdoors and had to cover the engine at night to keep rain off it. Any tarp will do the trick. Now if you're in the dirt and don't have access to plywood, I get it. I was once in that scenario and "rented" my bosses garage for a six pack . . . since I had no other options at the time being broke and in college . . . . if you can believe that.

Not trying to be a smart ass or anything just to be mean . . . Just want to reinforce that with the 6 hours or so that you already have into it this way, you could have been done. And when you're done, you'd know the seals are properly in place, on clean surfaces, and have been properly tightened.

I'm one of the worst for wanting to take short cuts. When I do it rarely works in my favor. I feel your pain and frustration because I've been there.

By all means, give the grease trick a try since you're at this point. Part of learning to wrench is learning when to give in and just do it "properly".

len, you following this? come over, do it on the lift. no time saving or ease advantage, doing in the car.

Got it - agree with you completely. So, here is the real reason:

I was surfing in Dec (something I have done all my life) and fell off the front of the wave and broke my back. I know, pretty crazy. I can walk, but cannot lift ANYTHING. Laying on my back under the car is great - will recover 100% but it will take time before I am in the clear to lift or move or stretch.

Thank you VERY much for the encouragement SuperHawk!

Respectfully,
CTC911CTC

Well sheesh . . . that changes everything doesn't it.

Rest up . . . do what you can. I used to road race motorcycles (if you call running mid pack racing ). I completely understand now.

When you're busted up you just want to just do something that feels productive other than sitting around and thinking about how you can't wait to go back at it and see if you can bust yourself up again.

Do what you can - heal up and let us know how it goes.

One of the reasons I didn't drop the engine when I replaced the oil cooler seals in my car is that it was a fairly easy job to do, plus I really hate dealing with the CVs. They are messy and I've always read that you should replace the CV bolts anytime you disconnect the CVs. Maybe that's not fully necessary?

FYI - you can reuse CV bolts. Just use the proper 12 point star tool to loosen tighten and they last forever. They are not a torque to yield fastener and can be reused indefinitely.

@rjames
Nice Avitar X-Ray. We need a thread to compare body hardware. you're well ahead of me.

I have a pin in my wrist that is a bio-mechanical-medical marvel Two different thread pitches on it to help cinch the bone together and hollow in the center to allow the marrow to go though it.

My doctor once told me:
We have all the same tools that you do in your toolbox. They are just stainless steel and sterile.

I missed the titanium cage by about a 2-3 feet of wave, fell off of a 10 foot pitche. No hardware in me. Doctor said I was the luckiest patient he had ever seen......??? 1 month on my back 2nd month on crutches, 3rd month in a brace. Now, working on full recovery and blasting the 914 through the towns of Cambridge, Arlington and Lexington.

Working under the 914 with a thorasic brace was interesting!
All good, great reading and contributing.

Fractured my neck in two places body surfing in Delaware. The doc said that a piece of the bone was a millimeter away from infringing on my spinal cord. I got very lucky. I went over the top of the wave and then went head first into the sand and then the wave drove me in further. When the wavecame down I was in 3 feet of water. I don’t remember any of it, including standing up and walking out of the surf.
Lucky to be alive!

No oil Leaks! Just some minor seeps!

Took the bolts off of the oil cooler (1/2 hour), let the new but out of place gaskets fall in my face (1 min), cleaned everything as best as possible, put heavy axle grease on the gaskets(5min), positioned the upper gasket (40 min - fell in my face 10-11 times), positioning the lower gasket is harder since the oil filter bracket blocks the view (1 hour, fell in my face 20+ times - grin!).

With the gaskets hopefully in place, I cranked the 10mm ratchet wrench on the top and the one on the bottom (needed two since when the bolt is loose on the top nut the wrench is locked on the shaft of the bolt - actually a nut-on-a-stud that will not spin off so the stud loosened instead of the nut spinning off). Cranked them both a few clicks at a time as well as a socket for the one on the end (30min). Tried not to over tighten. Put all of the tools away cleaned up and found a loose bolt 14mm.

Yikes, that is the bolt for the other side of the oil cooler - back under the car, put the bolt on - tried not to forget the fuel-pump power wire that is held into place by the same bolt.

Took the car off jacks and fired it up! Total elapsed time: 2hrs +

There are now no leaks, just a few seeps. I believe I have the driver side valve cover on with the LOGO facing UP instead of the prefered method of having the logo upside down.

The car has not run without oil leaks since I have had it. I ran the car for 30 minutes idle and reving. The amount of oil burning off of the pipes was a bit unsettling. My Enviro triggered neighbors were not liking what I was doing to the environment. They are at work today, will burn some more off in a few minutes.

Question: How long before the heating system is safe to use? Right now it belches smoke from nearly 40 years of oil seeping into the heater boxes. BTW, the heater boxes are stainless, so i believe I am OK as far as holes, etc.....?????

Congrats.
I got so frustrated with the seals I had to walk away. Nearly impossible to reach with no sightlines. But I'll try again tomorrow.

Doesn’t take much oil burning to make a lot of smoke. Probably faster (and better for the environment) to try and clean as much oil off of the exchangers as you can rather than trying to burn it all off- that could take a while.