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John
I tried searching, but didn't get much.

What is involved with fitting a 2.7 with CIS in a 914? I can figure out the plumbing and the electrical, but I believe that I had read long ago that it was a PITA to fit CIS without cutting anything or perhaps a mixture of different parts could be used or parts of the intake could be relocated in order to get it all to fit. I'd prefer to avoid cutting this 914 engine compartment since I'm trying to make this one appear mostly factory. Any advice or better yet pictures would be appreciated.

I'd rather not go with carbs, since I believe that I'd need to swap cams and pistons in order to do it right.

This one is only going to be a fun street car (I already have a dedicated track car)

(All my conversion experience has been with 3.2s, but I have this body, and I have this engine...)


Thanks in advance!
GregAmy
Contact Chris Foley, Tangerine Racing. He was involved in this project, possibly as the installer? If not, he and Ed certainly worked on/maintained it.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-23/

I still kick myself daily for not buying that car. Really grinds my gears to have missed that one...
Tdskip
Subscribing. I have been told it is possible, maybe with a Naro engine mount to help control the height of the engine?
Porschef
QUOTE(GregAmy @ Aug 13 2019, 11:16 AM) *

I still kick myself daily for not buying that car. Really grinds my gears to have missed that one...




No doubt... sad.gif
mb911
You actually rotate the cis 180 degrees and rebolt down.. It is pretty straight forward..

Let me know if I can help.. Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line..
morgan_harwell
I did this in 1987 with a 2.4L CIS engine. I did not need to cut up the engine bay or rotate the injection system in any direction.

1. I moved the engine lid latch assembly from the Driver's side to the Passenger side of the engine bay to make room for the CIS (requires some spot welds and making a longer release cable). The engine lid is designed for the latch pin assembly to be mounted on Driver's or Passenger side, so I moved it to the Passenger side on my original lid(again a couple of spot welds involved). Many years later, when I ordered a GT Lid from PCA7GGR, I had Sergio perform the same modification to the GT Lid before he painted it.

2. I relocated a CIS item from the rear-top of the CIS assembly (I think an altitude compensation part, has 3 hoses attached to it) to below the CIS assembly. I attached it to the lower part of the #6 intake manifold.

3. I replaced the fuel fitting on the back of the CIS Fuel Distributor. The original fitting came straight out of the FD directly into the rear firewall, so I replaced it with a welded up 90 degree banjo fitting.

4. I used the Becker Engineering 6-conversion mount at the time (1987). I will be switching that out this year (2019) for the Naro Mount, so that I can install the MB911 Heat Exchangers I bought a couple of years ago.

Click to view attachment
John
QUOTE(GregAmy @ Aug 13 2019, 07:16 AM) *

Contact Chris Foley, Tangerine Racing. He was involved in this project, possibly as the installer? If not, he and Ed certainly worked on/maintained it.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-23/

I still kick myself daily for not buying that car. Really grinds my gears to have missed that one...


Whose car was that? It had one of my tri-gauges in it. Too bad there weren't too many pictures of the engine. That car is about what I'm considering building this one to look except with flares.

John
QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 13 2019, 08:14 AM) *

You actually rotate the cis 180 degrees and rebolt down.. It is pretty straight forward..

Let me know if I can help.. Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line..


Do you know for a fact that it's possible to rotate the intake 180 degrees and have it fit or did you hear that second hand? I can try that on a stand and see if it all works before attempting to stuff it in the car.

I will probably make my own mount and sheet metal again. It worked well with the 3.2s I did.

P.S. I may want to talk to you about exhaust.
Dr Evil
QUOTE(John @ Aug 13 2019, 12:28 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 13 2019, 08:14 AM) *

You actually rotate the cis 180 degrees and rebolt down.. It is pretty straight forward..

Let me know if I can help.. Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line..


Do you know for a fact that it's possible to rotate the intake 180 degrees and have it fit or did you hear that second hand? I can try that on a stand and see if it all works before attempting to stuff it in the car.

I will probably make my own mount and sheet metal again. It worked well with the 3.2s I did.

P.S. I may want to talk to you about exhaust.

I have a conversion with a 2.7 running CIS. The you can rotate it no prob. Mine fit with minimal strife and modification. It is hours away from me at a body shop and the engine is out so cant take new pics, but if you search my conversion all the pics are there.
John
QUOTE

I have a conversion with a 2.7 running CIS. The you can rotate it no prob. Mine fit with minimal strife and modification. It is hours away from me at a body shop and the engine is out so cant take new pics, but if you search my conversion all the pics are there.


Tried searching, but came up with nothing. You have given me hope that it will fit. I suppose I need to go for it and see what I need to change in order to get it to fit.
Dr Evil
QUOTE(John @ Aug 13 2019, 01:31 PM) *

QUOTE

I have a conversion with a 2.7 running CIS. The you can rotate it no prob. Mine fit with minimal strife and modification. It is hours away from me at a body shop and the engine is out so cant take new pics, but if you search my conversion all the pics are there.


Tried searching, but came up with nothing. You have given me hope that it will fit. I suppose I need to go for it and see what I need to change in order to get it to fit.


Ya, I tried searching as well. Did the conversion in 2005. Had good pics and notes. Cant find it. Tried to use google as well...found lots of my transmission propaganda, but not my car. If you can find my threads from about 2004-2007 you will see good pics and info on what I did and fought with. I took out the rain tray and cut the engine bat release cable and tube out and make it pin down type. This gave me plenty of room. You unscrew the pressure manifold and simply rotate it and screw it back in. IIRC, 3 screws so can actually rotate less than 180, or more. I moved mine sideways, if I am not mistaken. Pics on home computer.

Fuel pump plumbing is different. Need the fuel pump, very high pressure. I replaced all my hoses with clear, new hoses for like $12 from NAPA. I did find the thread mentioning that. Boil water and push on to nipples, hard (man, that reads wrong).

Jetsetsurfshop
QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 13 2019, 08:14 AM) *

You actually rotate the cis 180 degrees and rebolt down.. It is pretty straight forward..

Let me know if I can help.. Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line..



Dropping the engine height 3/4 doest sound like a bad thing to me. I'm I missing something here on that statement?
mb911
If you want to make your engine sheet metal let me know.. I have laser cuts I can sell them to you and you can form them for 150..
mb911
QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Aug 13 2019, 09:48 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 13 2019, 08:14 AM) *

You actually rotate the cis 180 degrees and rebolt down.. It is pretty straight forward..

Let me know if I can help.. Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line..



Dropping the engine height 3/4 doest sound like a bad thing to me. I'm I missing something here on that statement?



No not bad but the rear engine to sheet metal seal no longer seals and the engine mount is in the way of the stock oil line.. I am going to now be supplying soft line scavange lines with heat exchangers as soon as I make them up and figure out pricing..
Jetsetsurfshop
QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 13 2019, 09:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Aug 13 2019, 09:48 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 13 2019, 08:14 AM) *

You actually rotate the cis 180 degrees and rebolt down.. It is pretty straight forward..

Let me know if I can help.. Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line..



Dropping the engine height 3/4 doest sound like a bad thing to me. I'm I missing something here on that statement?



No not bad but the rear engine to sheet metal seal no longer seals and the engine mount is in the way of the stock oil line.. I am going to now be supplying soft line scavange lines with heat exchangers as soon as I make them up and figure out pricing..


I just bought one of Naro's mount. I'm sure I can deal with the engine tin. Thanks for the info.
sixnotfour
one way to do it...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...ngine&st=20
914_teener
Slits (RIP) had a 2.7 with CIS IIRC.

I don't think he posted much on it but I saw the car running several times. It fit neatly and I always thought that the system itself is ingenious.

IIRC the hardest thing was the fuel accumulator and the fuel pump since it runs at high pressure.
sixnotfour
Jeff Tucker wrote;
QUOTE
No cutting required. I made a custom intake using an early Volvo 242 intake base and fabricated an intake elbow. Wiring was not complex you just need to focus. We removed the fuse panel. Added a fuel pump relay and a tach wire from the back. I put the computer under the passenger seat and added a sensor bung on 1 58" headers.
sixnotfour
last
sixnotfour
@Dr Evil
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...32819&st=20

QUOTE
I had the engine going in and realized that my engine lid release mechanism was crushing my air boot and FI distributor. I had to lower the engine and then I 'savaged' the release off with some vice grips and a 4" angle grinder chop wheel. I need to put the front tin in and the tranny now.

I lost a lot of blood yesterday with all of the metal cutting.
mepstein
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Aug 13 2019, 01:41 PM) *

QUOTE(John @ Aug 13 2019, 01:31 PM) *

QUOTE

I have a conversion with a 2.7 running CIS. The you can rotate it no prob. Mine fit with minimal strife and modification. It is hours away from me at a body shop and the engine is out so cant take new pics, but if you search my conversion all the pics are there.


Tried searching, but came up with nothing. You have given me hope that it will fit. I suppose I need to go for it and see what I need to change in order to get it to fit.


Ya, I tried searching as well. Did the conversion in 2005. Had good pics and notes. Cant find it. Tried to use google as well...found lots of my transmission propaganda, but not my car. If you can find my threads from about 2004-2007 you will see good pics and info on what I did and fought with. I took out the rain tray and cut the engine bat release cable and tube out and make it pin down type. This gave me plenty of room. You unscrew the pressure manifold and simply rotate it and screw it back in. IIRC, 3 screws so can actually rotate less than 180, or more. I moved mine sideways, if I am not mistaken. Pics on home computer.

Fuel pump plumbing is different. Need the fuel pump, very high pressure. I replaced all my hoses with clear, new hoses for like $12 from NAPA. I did find the thread mentioning that. Boil water and push on to nipples, hard (man, that reads wrong).

Mike - is that engine in your green car?
sixnotfour
QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 13 2019, 02:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Aug 13 2019, 01:41 PM) *

QUOTE(John @ Aug 13 2019, 01:31 PM) *

QUOTE

I have a conversion with a 2.7 running CIS. The you can rotate it no prob. Mine fit with minimal strife and modification. It is hours away from me at a body shop and the engine is out so cant take new pics, but if you search my conversion all the pics are there.


Tried searching, but came up with nothing. You have given me hope that it will fit. I suppose I need to go for it and see what I need to change in order to get it to fit.


Ya, I tried searching as well. Did the conversion in 2005. Had good pics and notes. Cant find it. Tried to use google as well...found lots of my transmission propaganda, but not my car. If you can find my threads from about 2004-2007 you will see good pics and info on what I did and fought with. I took out the rain tray and cut the engine bat release cable and tube out and make it pin down type. This gave me plenty of room. You unscrew the pressure manifold and simply rotate it and screw it back in. IIRC, 3 screws so can actually rotate less than 180, or more. I moved mine sideways, if I am not mistaken. Pics on home computer.

Fuel pump plumbing is different. Need the fuel pump, very high pressure. I replaced all my hoses with clear, new hoses for like $12 from NAPA. I did find the thread mentioning that. Boil water and push on to nipples, hard (man, that reads wrong).

Mike - is that engine in your green car?

his grey 914 at scotty's.....????
Dr Evil
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 13 2019, 04:59 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 13 2019, 02:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Aug 13 2019, 01:41 PM) *

QUOTE(John @ Aug 13 2019, 01:31 PM) *

QUOTE

I have a conversion with a 2.7 running CIS. The you can rotate it no prob. Mine fit with minimal strife and modification. It is hours away from me at a body shop and the engine is out so cant take new pics, but if you search my conversion all the pics are there.


Tried searching, but came up with nothing. You have given me hope that it will fit. I suppose I need to go for it and see what I need to change in order to get it to fit.


Ya, I tried searching as well. Did the conversion in 2005. Had good pics and notes. Cant find it. Tried to use google as well...found lots of my transmission propaganda, but not my car. If you can find my threads from about 2004-2007 you will see good pics and info on what I did and fought with. I took out the rain tray and cut the engine bat release cable and tube out and make it pin down type. This gave me plenty of room. You unscrew the pressure manifold and simply rotate it and screw it back in. IIRC, 3 screws so can actually rotate less than 180, or more. I moved mine sideways, if I am not mistaken. Pics on home computer.

Fuel pump plumbing is different. Need the fuel pump, very high pressure. I replaced all my hoses with clear, new hoses for like $12 from NAPA. I did find the thread mentioning that. Boil water and push on to nipples, hard (man, that reads wrong).

Mike - is that engine in your green car?

his grey 914 at scotty's.....????

Your search prowess is rock solid!

The green engine is not mine. The primer car is at Scotty’s. I have no parking for it.
billh1963
Send member adidas a PM. He is working on my ‘72 914 with CIS 2.7 right now. He can probably take pictures for you.
John
QUOTE(morgan_harwell @ Aug 13 2019, 08:22 AM) *

I did this in 1987 with a 2.4L CIS engine. I did not need to cut up the engine bay or rotate the injection system in any direction.

1. I moved the engine lid latch assembly from the Driver's side to the Passenger side of the engine bay to make room for the CIS (requires some spot welds and making a longer release cable). The engine lid is designed for the latch pin assembly to be mounted on Driver's or Passenger side, so I moved it to the Passenger side on my original lid(again a couple of spot welds involved). Many years later, when I ordered a GT Lid from PCA7GGR, I had Sergio perform the same modification to the GT Lid before he painted it.

2. I relocated a CIS item from the rear-top of the CIS assembly (I think an altitude compensation part, has 3 hoses attached to it) to below the CIS assembly. I attached it to the lower part of the #6 intake manifold.

3. I replaced the fuel fitting on the back of the CIS Fuel Distributor. The original fitting came straight out of the FD directly into the rear firewall, so I replaced it with a welded up 90 degree banjo fitting.

4. I used the Becker Engineering 6-conversion mount at the time (1987). I will be switching that out this year (2019) for the Naro Mount, so that I can install the MB911 Heat Exchangers I bought a couple of years ago.

Click to view attachment


I like the thought of leaving most of the CIS as is. Does that car still use a stock air filter? (I know it is a 2.4 and mine is a 2.7, but they should be similar) I'm going to have to get off my butt and pull the big dent and get this project moving forward. I suppose I will bolt a trans onto the engine and see what it looks like jacked up into position. I could easily move the engine lid latch and release mech to the passenger side. The franken-tub is cleaner than I remembered. The guy in Mason City did claim it was a CA car, but it has (2) two 76/76 front fenders and front panel on it.

morgan_harwell
QUOTE(John @ Aug 28 2019, 10:48 AM) *

QUOTE(morgan_harwell @ Aug 13 2019, 08:22 AM) *

I did this in 1987 with a 2.4L CIS engine. I did not need to cut up the engine bay or rotate the injection system in any direction.

1. I moved the engine lid latch assembly from the Driver's side to the Passenger side of the engine bay to make room for the CIS (requires some spot welds and making a longer release cable). The engine lid is designed for the latch pin assembly to be mounted on Driver's or Passenger side, so I moved it to the Passenger side on my original lid(again a couple of spot welds involved). Many years later, when I ordered a GT Lid from PCA7GGR, I had Sergio perform the same modification to the GT Lid before he painted it.


I like the thought of leaving most of the CIS as is. Does that car still use a stock air filter? (I know it is a 2.4 and mine is a 2.7, but they should be similar)

Yes, my 914 with 2.4L uses a stock CIS air filter, which is the same part number as 2.7L or 3.0L (1973-1983). Though I did not need to, I replaced the air-filter cover with one off a 911SC (shorter snorkel).
johnlush
The car referenced in posts 2 and 7 is mine. I started the conversion in the late 90's and never got it finished before trading it to my bro-in-law for his wrecked '71 /6. He had the conversion finished in CA. There was some less than craftsman type work done during that time even though it was done at a well respected shop. sad.gif My bro-in-law drove it for several years before selling it on BaT to a guy in NY. He had Chris do some work on it during his ownership but only drove it about 70 miles the whole time before listing it back on BaT. I'm so happy to have it back and continue to refine it. The 2.4 CIS engine is just perfect. Starts and runs great and just a really nice balance for a narrow-body car. I'm happy to take pics or whatever on how the CIS pluming/wiring all fits in to the engine compartment if that would be of help.
live free & drive
" Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line.."

Does anyone think this requires the dropping of the transaxle mounts also - to keep the shift console aligned?
mb911
QUOTE(live free & drive @ Aug 31 2019, 08:34 AM) *

" Also note the naro mount drops the height of the engine approximately 3/4" and will NOT allow for a stock scavange line.."

Does anyone think this requires the dropping of the transaxle mounts also - to keep the shift console aligned?



In theory probably. I will let you know as I finish my clients conversion up..
John
Well, I repaired the passenger side outer longitudinal with a replacement part from RD and all went fine so I'll continue on with this car. I was surprised with the absence of rust inside the the box section that I replaced. I still need to grind down my plug welds. In general, this car is mostly rust free, but it had been in at least a few crashes.

It does measure out, according to the workshop manuals.

Now I get to proceed on to re-fitting the 75 front fenders and back dating them as well as modifying the miscellaneous reinforcements for the front trunk (the front panel is obviously different from the earlier cars that I have).

Does a stock 2.7 need a front cooler? I'm not sure, but if it needs one, I may want to mount the lines like a GT on the drivers side under the rocker panel. My last conversion, I went through the heater tubes as it has headers and no heat anyway, but now some folks seem to offer heat exchangers for conversion cars...
mepstein
Ben/914-6Werkshop.com has the GT hard lines and stainless steel heat exchangers. You could run the car as-is and then decide if you need a front cooler. It depends on the climate, the engine, driving style, ect. Some engines run hotter than others no matter what.
John
A couple of pictures of what I'm dealing with...

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
John
Were all 914 Bodies painted white before color was applied?

I had heard this rumor a long time ago and believed it to some extent, but now with this current car, I believe it even more.

I was cleaning the glue off of the sail panels with glue remover and the 45 year old glue is coming off after some effort. Under the glue is glossy original paint down low on the sail panel, but the higher up I get, the silver fades away and I'm left with gloss white up at the top of the roll bar. I'm fairly certain that the white is factory applied paint, but was the whole car painted white first or just the upper portion of the roll bar? Why would they have done this, just to keep them from rusting prior to actual color application? This 914 shell has the most in-tact original paint that I have started a project with. I'm so glad that this one really has nearly zero rust to deal with.

I'm guessing this topic is already covered somewhere, but I can't seem to click on the search function today.
mepstein
No
mb911
Maybe just white primer?
John
I don't believe it to be primer as it seems too glossy and also, the primer under the tar on the floors is indeed gray. I only removed tar in a spot where it crumbled, but primered sheet metal was underneath.

mepstein
So many things done to these cars over 50 years.
John
QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 24 2019, 07:34 AM) *

So many things done to these cars over 50 years.


That's my point. This car hasn't had much done to it. Probably in storage more than it was driven. Too bad they stripped all the stuff off and sold it piece by piece. I should have started on this 12 years ago, but life gets in the way sometimes.
stevesc_us
Forget all that CIS crap and make it look old school by converting to an EFI/ITB set up like I did on one of my early 911’s. The PMO ITB’s look just like carbs which is why I went that route.
Click to view attachment
JmuRiz
QUOTE(stevesc_us @ Sep 28 2019, 06:21 AM) *

Forget all that CIS crap and make it look old school by converting to an EFI/ITB set up like I did on one of my early 911’s. The PMO ITB’s look just like carbs which is why I went that route.

I think we'd all like a setup like that, but $9k for everything is a tough pill to swallow (ITBs, AEM setup and all the fixin's)!!!
If it were in the 2-3k range I think we'd all be running that on our /6 conversions.
John
That is certainly one way to go.

I already have what I have and will use the CIS. in my 74 914 body.
Justinp71
My uncle and I did a 2.7 install 15 years ago. We had an earlier CIS that had less components (not sure when they added more components, but I know the 3.0 version has more for sure). We just removed the engine lid latch afaik and secured it with hood pins. You can also rotate it 180 degrees as from what others have said. If you have a later model CIS there is a valve on the back side that interferes with the trunk and I believe you need to rotate the CIS or make other modifications.
Dr Evil
QUOTE(Justinp71 @ Oct 1 2019, 07:48 PM) *

My uncle and I did a 2.7 install 15 years ago. We had an earlier CIS that had less components (not sure when they added more components, but I know the 3.0 version has more for sure). We just removed the engine lid latch afaik and secured it with hood pins. You can also rotate it 180 degrees as from what others have said. If you have a later model CIS there is a valve on the back side that interferes with the trunk and I believe you need to rotate the CIS or make other modifications.

I cut out the guide tube for the lid release cable...didnt have to, followed bad advice. See how it fits with your mount, and rotated fuel distributor and any slight mods will be simple. CIS is great once it id dialed in. I wanted to use what I had, and make a nice street car, not a super car, but a fun, well mannered, all around sports car and the CIS will do that.

I did not run a cooler on my 2.7 CIS and lived in PA and drove around the East coast states (briefly, until I wrecked in.... dry.gif ). I do plan on putting a cooler in the current one when its done for the sake of safety for the engine and potential hilly hot runs which I have not tried yet.
914Toy
QUOTE(stevesc_us @ Sep 28 2019, 07:21 AM) *

Forget all that CIS crap and make it look old school by converting to an EFI/ITB set up like I did on one of my early 911’s. The PMO ITB’s look just like carbs which is why I went that route.
Click to view attachment


SteveSC_US, Sent you a PM.
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