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Tdskip
Assuming the goal is a daily driver civilized build that you’d get out of after 500 without feeling beat up and frazzled - how do you do that?

The 3.2 I have had a complete Motrinic and I am assuming that keeping that would be step one in that build , yes?

Is the rest down to muffler choice and sound deadening etc.?
dr914@autoatlanta.com
stock motronic 901 transmission kennedy engineering flywheel clutch conversion stock fender wells, rsr offset repro fuchs in 7 inch by braid, front oil cooler kit from patrick motorsports oil tank kit from patrick motorsports chassis stiffening kit from mad dog stock heat exchangers and muffler from Dansk (not quite the power as larger matched 3.2 header system, but good hot heat! (we stock that stuff) accelerator and bell crank kit from Rich Johnson, Stock already in the 73-76 914 or perfect fit dynamat material engine insulator pad (we make) complete 911 carrera front end used (robert at dc automotive) rear five lug drilled hubs and 914-6 rear rotors (we have) and some great advice (jeff at autoatlanta)


QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 12:21 PM) *

Assuming the goal is a daily driver civilized build that you’d get out of after 500 without feeling beat up and frazzled - how do you do that?

The 3.2 I have had a complete Motrinic and I am assuming that keeping that would be step one in that build , yes?

Is the rest down to muffler choice and sound deadening etc.?

thelogo
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 11:21 AM) *

Assuming the goal is a daily driver civilized build that you’d get out of after 500 without feeling beat up and frazzled - how do you do that?




You could buy
Elliot old yellow /6 .lol .........


500 miles in comfort is more buick territory or Cadillac
Not 914

I would assume the softest or most compliant suspension would get you there with the least amount of chapped ass smoke.gif

And exausht i would do a variable/butterfly or cut out exausht
For when you wanna make that special /6 noise . wub.gif
mb911
What George no plug for my 1.625 heat exchangers and stock sound level stainless muffler? biggrin.gif

@tdskip . I do agree with George mostly.. The 3.2 though really should have 1.625 headers or heat exchangers even for daily driver as this allows the engine to breath properly in all rpm ranges.


PM if you want some special pricing for cyber Monday.. Even Rich Johnson got in on it..



Ps color me jealous a 3.2 setup is wonderful..


Rob-O
I think George has good points. When I think civilized I think noise and drivability. I’d also stick with heat exchangers to help noose and give you heat. I’d put a quiet muffler on it. Hard to do 500 mikes with muffler drone AND a big motor right behind your head. I’d consider putting the engine bay sound deadening in, as well as the rubber mats installed behind the back pad.

Different gearing in the trans, maybe. Or a trans swap. Something that gives you low rpm’s in 5th gear at highway speeds. Again, spinning at 3000 at 75mph wears on you after an hour or two.

Hopefully these guys that take their 914’s long distance will chime in. Ask #clayperrine, he and Betty drive their cars all across the country. You’ll get some expert advice from those folks.
mepstein
Don't get paralysis by analysis. Build something, drive it, modify if needed.

Ben's heat exchangers and quiet muffler were built for a 3.2. Just saying...
mb911
Oh also note to stick with soft suspension and 15 inch wheels to allow for larger rubber for a softer ride.. Thats what I did/doing.
Superhawk996
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 02:21 PM) *

Assuming the goal is a daily driver civilized build that you’d get out of after 500 without feeling beat up and frazzled - how do you do that?



Are you kidding? 500 miles isn’t even a long day on a motorcycle.

biggrin.gif

500 miles is what about 6 hours of freeway driving and two pee breaks! One if you skip the coffee beer3.gif and just eat ice chips slowly to stay hydrated.

NVH is what actually tires you out the fastest. But even with a very quiet motor and the best sound deadners for floorpan and the other body panels you’ll run up against wind noise which is very hard to solve on a 914 and will limit how quiet you could get the car.
Bleyseng
Hmm, I disagree with the soft soft suspension as I love my stiff setup at 75 mph. Easy to drive 6 hrs in it. I think tire noise is important too so that selection of tires that are quiet along with the stockish setup for HE's, muffler etc will help keep it quiet inside as much as possible.
ConeDodger
Driveline wise, the stock 3.2 with all of its Motronics cannot be beat. I would drive mine anywhere. Your metric though, might be a little unrealistic. After 500 miles in my 5 Series X Drive BMW I would feel beaten up from sitting. I’m sure a stock 3.6 aircooled would be just as reliable.
For true daily driver status, heat exchangers are a plus. I put seat heaters in and it doesn’t quite measure.
I have zero rubber in my suspension, but the ride is pretty darn good with the Elephant Bushings.
I would never daily drive it, but I could...

And she looks so darn good!
horizontally-opposed
Civilized 914 3.2? I like your thinking—it's different, and cool.

My recipe would be:

1975 914 1.8 or 2.0 w/big bumpers and all the updates
3.2 w/Motronic
915/916 gearbox
Keep 914-4 sound-deadening
Consider double-pane rear window
Ben's heater boxes + quiet muffler
Mild suspension with Koni reds
PMB or 986 brakes
16x6-inch Fuchs w/205/55R16 Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 3 tires
Air-conditioning (electric? as used by Emory Motorsports)
Rear oil cooler or custom loop coolers to both front fenders
Stock seats with grippy cloth
Power windows that use the stock window winders as "switches"
930/Carrera-style carpeting of some sort


burton73
I can tell you what I think of the engine set up.
This is easy with the stock injection. Just put a Steve Wong chip in it so it will pull well from the bottom or RPM range to red line. Just like a 911 Carrera in those years of the 3.2
I ran my 86 Carrera with that set up with a CAT bypass but it would not pass smog in CA on the test so I went back to CAT. This is not a problem for you.

Exhaust of your choice to keep it down or a bit beefier like what I am running on my 6 with 2 in 2 out. Bens set up is great if you have the money and want heat.

I say around 230HP or so like the euro 3.2

Good luck bud, do you have the body yet?


Bob B


driving-girl.gif
Coondog
Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... lol-2.gif
Cairo94507
Huh...that is pretty much my build except I went with Ben's SS complete exhaust. I have actually been thinking about the engine compartment sound reducing pad....but I am not going to do anything with that until we actually drive the car and see if it is needed or not. I agree 100% with the rubber bushings. I also went with stock 914 sway bars front and rear and 140 pound springs with Bilstein shocks. I really do not want the car to be a rough or hard ride. I have 15" Fuchs with 195x55 tires. Hopefully that all works together nicely. I am sure once my car is running and driving I will post something about the ride, etc. beerchug.gif
siverson
> Assuming the goal is a daily driver civilized build that you’d get out of after 500 without feeling beat up and frazzled - how do you do that?

I agree with much of the above and... don't be 6'6".

-Steve
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Coondog @ Dec 2 2019, 07:31 PM) *

Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... lol-2.gif


I’d disagree that Ben’s heat exchangers are the “only” way to go. If you don’t require heat, MSDS headers are so sexy it’s a shame they’re out of sight!

@Maltese Falcon
sixnotfour
Carbs/K&Ns/ Sport Muffler/PPEs.... Its a tin can..add power enjoy or buy a boxster
Krieger
Maybe a jar of Grey Poupon? beerchug.gif
914forme
Don't forget Ben's hard lines for the front oil cooler.
mb911
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Coondog @ Dec 2 2019, 07:31 PM) *

Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... lol-2.gif


I’d disagree that Ben’s heat exchangers are the “only” way to go. If you don’t require heat, MSDS headers are so sexy it’s a shame they’re out of sight!

@Maltese Falcon



Rob he was implying for heat .. There is not much out there for options..
ConeDodger
QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 2 2019, 10:50 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Coondog @ Dec 2 2019, 07:31 PM) *

Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... lol-2.gif


I’d disagree that Ben’s heat exchangers are the “only” way to go. If you don’t require heat, MSDS headers are so sexy it’s a shame they’re out of sight!

@Maltese Falcon



Rob he was implying for heat .. There is not much out there for options..


Yes, true. But I’m not giving up my headers. I’m hoping you’ll heat box them for all of us with MSDS...
mb911
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 05:53 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 2 2019, 10:50 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Coondog @ Dec 2 2019, 07:31 PM) *

Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... lol-2.gif


I’d disagree that Ben’s heat exchangers are the “only” way to go. If you don’t require heat, MSDS headers are so sexy it’s a shame they’re out of sight!

@Maltese Falcon



Rob he was implying for heat .. There is not much out there for options..


Yes, true. But I’m not giving up my headers. I’m hoping you’ll heat box them for all of us with MSDS...



Rob,

I have actually been thinking about that lately.. I want to connect with Marty and talk about how consistent the header pipe route is.. Then make a mild steel enclosure that anyone can install and get heat.. I think it would be awesome for all the folks with headers..

Sorry back to our regularly scheduled programming everyone..

Tdskip
Great discussion gentlemen, appreciate all the thoughts and responses.

I think I need to starting focusing more on NVH, as suggested.

I did several 500 mile days in that ‘74 2.0L car I drove from OR to SoCal and it was fine.

@mb911 - PM sent.

@Superhawk996 - yeah yeah yeah, I know, I know. I have naked Goldwing that eats that sort of mileage for breakfast but the /6 needs to be something my significant other can comfortably drive.

@dr914 @autoatlanta.com - thanks as always.

Appreciate ALL the thoughts and experiences and thoughts.
mb911
@tdskip pm'd back ..
914forme
I would also swap out the the seats for some Lemans GTS seats. Seat heaters and lumbar support is always nice adds.

Lots of sound deading is a nice add also. I would also add it to the top, and the cavity between the passenger compartment and the roll bar.

I would bolt down the top, but that is me, as it should stop some movement.

Beyond that I think the list has been covered here. 3.2 is a nice setup, I would grab most of my parts off Ben @MB911 as his stuff is great products, and he has almost everything you want to build your -6.

If you don't need it to look stock under the rockers Brad Meyer's 914LTD rocker kit will stiffen the car up nicely, and the Maddog kit, and it is a very stiff 914.

Of course you will need lots of seals 914Rubber, they also have the suspension stuff coming.

After that you will have spent some serious coin, but be all biggrin.gif while racking up the miles driving.gif
Tdskip
Thanks @914forme

This car has already been braced and has 911 brakes and front suspension, so it’s ready from that POV.
sixnotfour
tdskip..your all over the map was a small bore now its a 3.2.....collecting all this intell. ..pull the Fuchin Trigger ..Move Forward with Something.......
type 4 sale turbo, 75/76 exhaust,.blabla bla ...put a fuchin bumper on your toylet....my dad built lots of those conversions..BFD..
Tdskip
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 10:47 PM) *

tdskip..your all over the map was a small bore now its a 3.2.....collecting all this intell. ..pull the Fuchin Trigger ..Move Forward with Something.......
type 4 sale turbo, 75/76 exhaust,.blabla bla ...put a fuchin bumper on your toylet....my dad built lots of those conversions..BFD..


@sixnotfour , ha, yes, looks messy until you remember that I have four of these darn things now (was five). None of them ran well enough to use when I got them, except for the OR roadtrip car. They all run and drive now, so some of those options were for the other cars that needed new/alternative engines. The 3.2 build was never in doubt, just sorting out the others to enjoy or move them along. I have two 2.0L I will be using in those so shifting my planning back to the 3.2 build.

I do like to gather information, helps result in good outcomes and I try to show that I do appreciate the education.
sixnotfour
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 09:02 PM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 10:47 PM) *

tdskip..your all over the map was a small bore now its a 3.2.....collecting all this intell. ..pull the Fuchin Trigger ..Move Forward with Something.......
type 4 sale turbo, 75/76 exhaust,.blabla bla ...put a fuchin bumper on your toylet....my dad built lots of those conversions..BFD..


@sixnotfour , ha, yes, looks messy until you remember that I have four of these darn things now (was five). Some of those options were for the other cars that needed new/alternative engines. The 3.2 build was never in doubt, just sorting out the others to enjoy or move them along. I have two 2.0L I will be using in those so shifting my planning back to the 3.2 build.

I do like to gather information, helps result in good outcomes and I try to show that I do appreciate the education.

I have 12 BFD,, focus on one at time ...you see 4 of mine..
Tdskip
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 11:04 PM) *


I have 12 BFD


That is a lot! No wonder you know so much, take pity on those with far fewer and are still learning perhaps?
sixnotfour
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 09:05 PM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 11:04 PM) *


I have 12 BFD


That is a lot! No wonder you know so much, take pity on those with far fewer and are still learning perhaps?

It takes Focus..you will go crazy.....
cali914
Kents set up is as close as you are going to get with comfortability for 500 miles in a 914. subaru engine with subaru trans and air conditioning. The only other thing that comes close is buy a boxster, a modern day 914.
a9146luvr
"civilized?", not possible evilgrin.gif hopefully! biggrin.gif
Superhawk996
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 09:46 PM) *

Great discussion gentlemen, appreciate all the thoughts and responses.

I think I need to starting focusing more on NVH, as suggested.


@Superhawk996 - yeah yeah yeah, I know, I know. I have naked Goldwing that eats that sort of mileage for breakfast but the /6 needs to be something my significant other can comfortably drive.


Appreciate ALL the thoughts and experiences and thoughts.


aktion035.gif My 914 came about due to wife's lack of interest in riding on the back of motorcycles any more. She missed the weekend drives in the Miata and suggested I buy a 914 again.

The other key ingredient for comfortable 500 mile days may be A/C & heat depending on your environment.

You are wise to focus on NVH. Often ignored. Lots of studies show NVH is critical to driver comfort & customer satisfaction. In some cases like low freqency drone or high frequency whistle, the driver may not even be consciously aware, but when the stimulus is removed, they then feel much better about the car.

NVH ideas:
Cloth seat coverings - the will absorb noise and the allow more comfort / breathability than vinyl or leather. Even if you kept bolsters vinyl but added cloth center cushions it will help significantly.

Back & door panel pad covering - cloth or Alcantera (faux suede) like materials - can be mixed with leather / vinyl if original appearance isn't importnat to you. You'd be surprised how much louder leather interiors are vs. cloth. Most modern cars are a strategic mix of materials.

Put something soft / foamy / fuzzy on the underside of the targa top. That is basically a big resonator and a sound reflector. Actually Dyna mat on the underside and then covered with something that looks nice would be useful to damp NVH.

Use shoddy under the carpet in addition to sound treatment like constrained layer damping material (Dynamat) this is usually more effective than the tar mats.

If you can tolerate a center console or storage bin, it will help break up some potential cabin resonances that come with an "open box" cabin.

Use Dynamat on other panels like door outer & the front dash that otherwise have no treatment.

Seal all pass through holes with proper grommets & seals. Put a patch of Dynamat over any random screw holes. Air leakage = Noise transfer path

Door seals - make sure your door seals are actually sealing to the body.

You get the idea.

Here's a starter for you:

http://lightweightingworld.com/noise-vibra...lightweighting/
Steve
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Dec 2 2019, 01:53 PM) *

Civilized 914 3.2? I like your thinking—it's different, and cool.

My recipe would be:

1975 914 1.8 or 2.0 w/big bumpers and all the updates
3.2 w/Motronic
915/916 gearbox
Keep 914-4 sound-deadening
Consider double-pane rear window
Ben's heater boxes + quiet muffler
Mild suspension with Koni reds
PMB or 986 brakes
16x6-inch Fuchs w/205/55R16 Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 3 tires
Air-conditioning (electric? as used by Emory Motorsports)
Rear oil cooler or custom loop coolers to both front fenders
Stock seats with grippy cloth
Power windows that use the stock window winders as "switches"
930/Carrera-style carpeting of some sort

agree.gif
This is pretty much my build minus the electric stuff, double rear window and big bumpers. Bens heat exchangers give awesome heat for cold mornings and the quiet muffler makes conversations easy in the cabin and make the drive more relaxing. My Martin Bott 916 1986 transmission gearing matches my 3.2 euro 3.2 motor and makes driving much more relaxing. 1st gear is actually useable and you shift less often. The steve Wong chip really opens up the 3.2 motor and makes the motor more smoother. Next on my list is electric AC. I have all the parts, but no time to install it.
Click to view attachment
Racer
My long 914 drives (1.7, 2.0, 2056, 2.0/6) have all been great. They were all when i was young too.

My complaints when young were (with the 6)... droning. Ran a sport muffler. Droning.

Wind noise. Without AC, the need to run with windows open / top off / combos there of, lead to a lot of wind noise.

Road noise.. not from my car, but from the cars around me. Tire noise. Engine noise. Truck noise. Horns. There is a lot of noise.. Most of the time, in your modern DD, you don't notice it.. cause windows are closed, AC/heat is on and radio/music is playing.

But 500 miles / 5-6-8 hours on the freeway I now find this fatiguing. I get out of the car with a ringing in my ears.

The easy answer is - Get a Boxster/Cayman wink.gif

But SoCal is not the rest of america. Maybe these aren't your concerns.

Seats - get some more comfortable seats.. Add the sound deadening (but not too much, since that 3.2 sounds great right behind you wink.gif )
Tdskip
Thanks for all the constructive input.

So, with all the feedback, a couple planning points.

-going to leave the Motronic on (already decided that but worth repeating for clarity)
-will use the Dr Evil clinic rebuilt gearbox (that was a fun event, we should do another soon)
-will put the interior sound insulation back in (PO removed it)
-will make sure there is the sound pad (or modern equivalent) in the engine compartment
-will use rubber rather than hard mounts for engine and transmission mounts
-door and top seals etc will all be fresh
-going to use Ben's HEs
-have a Triad quiet muffler I picked up from a fellow member here that I will give a try (to @mepstein 's point I can always swap it out)
-existing suspension and braking is just fine and comfortable
-she will go back to being green, which doesn't really impact how she will drive but I hear all the cool kids like Zambezi)

@sixnotfour I do understand your point (and it is a good one). I've gotten used to juggling multiple builds and built the GTV and FJ40 while putting the '73 1.7 BAT car into regular use so "just" focusing on the 914s will feel like a but of a luxury, but I freely admit this is NOT the way to do it.

I need to wrap up the '74 metal work and get one of the refreshed 2.0L in so I can move it along to finish funding this, but this sort of dialog is VERY much appreciated[u].
Steve
The triad is nice, but it does have an evil drone around 2800 rpms. It’s also not as quiet as bens muffler. The triad is noticeably louder in the cockpit.
Tdskip
QUOTE(Steve @ Dec 3 2019, 10:58 AM) *

The triad is nice, but it does have an evil drone around 2800 rpms. It’s also not as quiet as bens muffler. The triad is noticeably louder in the cockpit.


Thanks @Steve
cali914
QUOTE(Steve @ Dec 3 2019, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Dec 2 2019, 01:53 PM) *

Civilized 914 3.2? I like your thinking—it's different, and cool.

My recipe would be:

1975 914 1.8 or 2.0 w/big bumpers and all the updates
3.2 w/Motronic
915/916 gearbox
Keep 914-4 sound-deadening
Consider double-pane rear window
Ben's heater boxes + quiet muffler
Mild suspension with Koni reds
PMB or 986 brakes
16x6-inch Fuchs w/205/55R16 Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 3 tires
Air-conditioning (electric? as used by Emory Motorsports)
Rear oil cooler or custom loop coolers to both front fenders
Stock seats with grippy cloth
Power windows that use the stock window winders as "switches"
930/Carrera-style carpeting of some sort

agree.gif
This is pretty much my build minus the electric stuff, double rear window and big bumpers. Bens heat exchangers give awesome heat for cold mornings and the quiet muffler makes conversations easy in the cabin and make the drive more relaxing. My Martin Bott 916 1986 transmission gearing matches my 3.2 euro 3.2 motor and makes driving much more relaxing. 1st gear is actually useable and you shift less often. The steve Wong chip really opens up the 3.2 motor and makes the motor more smoother. Next on my list is electric AC. I have all the parts, but no time to install it.
Click to view attachment

The combination of the color and your rims makes your car look really sexy.
Tdskip
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Dec 3 2019, 07:06 AM) *


Great link, recommend reading gentlemen.
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