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oakdalecurtis
Here’s a link to the Harbor Freight jackstands that are being recalled. Apparently the catch pawl can slip and allow collapse of the stands under load.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/bu...-of-collapsing/

Click to view attachment
Steve
I know this has been discussed before with some gruesome pictures... but who in there right mind would use ratcheting jack stands? Most people use the ones with the pins. To easy to kick that lever and have the car fall on you.
VaccaRabite
QUOTE(Steve @ May 19 2020, 05:24 PM) *

I know this has been discussed before with some gruesome pictures... but who in there right mind would use ratcheting jack stands? Most people use the ones with the pins. To easy to kick that lever and have the car fall on you.


If by "most people" you mean "a distinct minority of people" then you are correct.

I've seen a LOT of shops and garages, and most that have jackstands have the pawl kind not the pin kind.

Generally speaking you can't get the pin kind at Walmart, FLAPS, or Harbor Freight. And when you can they are way more expensive. To get the pin type you are suddenly bumped into shop tools, and they are out of the price range of the guy just wanting to change his oil.

So, the vast majority of people that use jackstands use the pawl type. And those people are better off then the even larger majority that don't use anything at all.

Zach
cuddy_k
Looks like you can now get hybrid ratchet / pin stands for about the same price. I can only imagine the insurance claims that forced this redesign...

Click to view attachment
Steve
QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ May 19 2020, 03:07 PM) *

QUOTE(Steve @ May 19 2020, 05:24 PM) *

I know this has been discussed before with some gruesome pictures... but who in there right mind would use ratcheting jack stands? Most people use the ones with the pins. To easy to kick that lever and have the car fall on you.


If by "most people" you mean "a distinct minority of people" then you are correct.

I've seen a LOT of shops and garages, and most that have jackstands have the pawl kind not the pin kind.

Generally speaking you can't get the pin kind at Walmart, FLAPS, or Harbor Freight. And when you can they are way more expensive. To get the pin type you are suddenly bumped into shop tools, and they are out of the price range of the guy just wanting to change his oil.

So, the vast majority of people that use jackstands use the pawl type. And those people are better off then the even larger majority that don't use anything at all.

Zach

Maybe your right, but I had no problem finding mine at Pep boys, but that was 20 years ago.
Click to view attachment
914Sixer
NEVER buy a jack stand that does NOT have a locking pin. It is that simple!
jdamiano
QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 19 2020, 04:19 PM) *

Looks like you can now get hybrid ratchet / pin stands for about the same price. I can only imagine the insurance claims that forced this redesign...

Click to view attachment

I purchased this exact set after watching a YouTube video of a guy testing the story of a guy dropping his 914 on himself by releasing a non pined stand accidentally with a long screwdriver caught in the release lever. His test proved it possible.
jdamiano
https://youtu.be/G7_Aa8pbM7Y
Superhawk996
QUOTE(jdamiano @ May 19 2020, 07:13 PM) *


Click bait video.

"ha ha it totally failed" -- After he hooked a pry bar under it and then exerted substantial force on the pry bar without measuring the force on the bar and calculating the total force exterted on the jack stand lever.

Later in the video he goes on to show that it isn't easy to accidentally release. What also isn't considered is that a failure of 1 jackstand probably won't kill you. Could it?

Yes, in just the right scenaro but the weight would not crush to the ground and the other 3 stands would still bear weight. Now if you're only using 1 jack stand and working directly below it, that is just asking for trouble. I almost always back up a single jackstand with another.

News Flash: working the the garage around heavy objects and power tools can be dangerous. Even full on two post and 4 post hoists have been known to fail unexpectedly. Extremely rare but it has happened. Standing under a two ton object is inherently dangerous to a degree.

If we don't take responsibility for our own safety and actions, expect a set of jackstands to soon cost $500 to cover corporate liability and the costs of frivilous lawsuits.

This sort of "experiment" makes a well proven jack stand design appear to be critically flawed though intentional misuse. Sort of like when NBC news was caught using ignitors to ensure that a "test crash" caught on camera would result in a firery crash.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-199...1335-story.html

Just for clarity -- I'm not against pin type either!
JRust
I have those jackstands but only use them as extra. I never rely on them to hold my car up with me under it. I have had my car up on 4 of those before with it supporting all it's weight. I always have backup blocks under or wheels under to back them up. Point being I know they have had failure issues. So if you do use them be smart & has safety measures in place. I have a mid-rise scissor lift now so mostly they just sit in my garage
bbrock
QUOTE(jdamiano @ May 19 2020, 05:08 PM) *

QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 19 2020, 04:19 PM) *

Looks like you can now get hybrid ratchet / pin stands for about the same price. I can only imagine the insurance claims that forced this redesign...

Click to view attachment

I purchased this exact set after watching a YouTube video of a guy testing the story of a guy dropping his 914 on himself by releasing a non pined stand accidentally with a long screwdriver caught in the release lever. His test proved it possible.


I have a set of Strongway brand jackstands that are the same design. Somebody posted here about them when I started my build a few years ago. I'm glad they did because they are really nice stands. Easy adjustment of a ratchet with the security of a pin. I highly recommend them.
bkrantz
My preference.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019JVIP...=UTF8&psc=1
VaccaRabite
Just so we are clear, the guy that was under his 914 when a pawl style jack stand failed was a World member and Admin.

When Gint had his incident that was when I shoved my pawl types under a workbench and bought several pin types.

Zach
911GT2
QUOTE(Steve @ May 19 2020, 01:24 PM) *

I know this has been discussed before with some gruesome pictures... but who in there right mind would use ratcheting jack stands? Most people use the ones with the pins. To easy to kick that lever and have the car fall on you.

bs.gif

I use them all the time. Without any problem.
You can't kick that lever as the lever forces the support up. So then you would be kicking the car up. Unless you're Gary Anderson I don't see that happening any time soon.

Believe me I've tried more than once in the name of speed to do it that way, it will not happen!
Superhawk996
QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ May 20 2020, 12:22 AM) *

Just so we are clear, the guy that was under his 914 when a pawl style jack stand failed was a World member and Admin.

When Gint had his incident that was when I shoved my pawl types under a workbench and bought several pin types.

Zach


That is indeed is tragedy. I don't mean to make light of that incident or any other that has led to death or injury.

My main point is that everyting we do in the garage or under a car has inherent risk. I use two post hoists all the time as part of my day job (well at least when we were allowed to actually go to work lol-2.gif ) and stand under cars on those hoists.

Standard procedure is to load car, lift hoist about 6" off the ground then shake the hell out of it to make sure it is solidily on the lift pads properly and the car is stable on the hoist itself.

The hoists have built in pneumatically actuated ratchet and pawl locks of exactly the same design as a set of ratcheting jack stands.

Could they fail? Yes. Have hoists failed in the past? Yes. Will they fail in the future if not maintained or used properly - Yes.

Guys -- be safe out there. Take responsibility for your own safety. Use back up devices or some sort of blocking when ever you can.
horizontally-opposed
QUOTE(911GT2 @ May 20 2020, 04:26 AM) *


I use them all the time. Without any problem.
You can't kick that lever as the lever forces the support up. So then you would be kicking the car up. Unless you're Gary Anderson I don't see that happening any time soon.

Believe me I've tried more than once in the name of speed to do it that way, it will not happen!


Find the nearest dumpster and throw them away. Preferably disassembled, in two stages, so no one can reassemble them.

Pin types are inexpensive on Amazon and elsewhere—very cheap insurance, and there's only one you. Said with love for ya…

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ May 20 2020, 05:01 AM) *

My main point is that everyting we do in the garage or under a car has inherent risk. I use two post hoists all the time as part of my day job (well at least when we were allowed to actually go to work lol-2.gif ) and stand under cars on those hoists.

Standard procedure is to load car, lift hoist about 6" off the ground then shake the hell out of it to make sure it is solidily on the lift pads properly and the car is stable on the hoist itself.

The hoists have built in pneumatically actuated ratchet and pawl locks of exactly the same design as a set of ratcheting jack stands.

Could they fail? Yes. Have hoists failed in the past? Yes. Will they fail in the future if not maintained or used properly - Yes.

Guys -- be safe out there. Take responsibility for your own safety. Use back up devices or some sort of blocking when ever you can.


^ Yes, to all that.
Andyrew
I use mine on the low level only so no opportunity to fail. If I raise it up beyond that I put two extras as safety.
pt_700
would it be safe to drill holes to add pins to these types of stands? how much might the hole compromise strength? what type of "pin" would be strong enough?
AZBanks
QUOTE(pt_700 @ May 20 2020, 11:41 AM) *

would it be safe to drill holes to add pins to these types of stands? how much might the hole compromise strength? what type of "pin" would be strong enough?


Without proper test equipment, who knows. Why risk your life to save a few bucks. beerchug.gif
Rufus
QUOTE(911GT2 @ May 20 2020, 04:26 AM) *

QUOTE(Steve @ May 19 2020, 01:24 PM) *

I know this has been discussed before with some gruesome pictures... but who in there right mind would use ratcheting jack stands? Most people use the ones with the pins. To easy to kick that lever and have the car fall on you.

bs.gif

I use them all the time. Without any problem.
You can't kick that lever as the lever forces the support up. So then you would be kicking the car up. Unless you're Gary Anderson I don't see that happening any time soon.

Believe me I've tried more than once in the name of speed to do it that way, it will not happen!


Almost certainly not the same brand, and appear to be designed a little differently (the levers on mine come down much closer to the legs of the stand when the pawl is fully engaged), but I’ve been using my pawl type stands without a problem for more than 25 years ... on the probably more than 20 cars / pickups I’ve owned in that time. I 100% agree it’s impossible to kick the release lever up with the car’s weight on them.

I ALWAYS check very carefully (visually and by feel) when setting them that the pawl and tooth are fully / properly engaged. Then after the car’s up in its final working position, I ALWAYS grab the car by the body, engine, or ??, and give it a healthy shake to make sure nothing moves. Only THEN do I go underneath.

Back in the ‘70’s a couple of buddies and I R&R’d transmissions on our Chevy’s together using tree stumps as jack stands ... no more!

And there was also a time when I crewed for TransAm Camaro at Lime Rock in 1972 ... being one of the last to arrive at the track our only option in the paddock was an uneven spot and being early May the ground was still a little wet. During prep for the race I was under the car a bit; changing oil, etc. Then soon after finishing some of my work, the car slipped off the stands!

As I read in the R&T article, the problem is due to old / worn tooling used in manufacturing.

I’m very curious ... does anyone on here have stands that fall within the recall? And if so, could you please have a close look and report anything that looks suspect? Photos maybe??
76-914
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ May 19 2020, 05:47 PM) *

QUOTE(jdamiano @ May 19 2020, 07:13 PM) *


Click bait video.

"ha ha it totally failed" -- After he hooked a pry bar under it and then exerted substantial force on the pry bar without measuring the force on the bar and calculating the total force exterted on the jack stand lever.

Later in the video he goes on to show that it isn't easy to accidentally release. What also isn't considered is that a failure of 1 jackstand probably won't kill you. Could it?

Yes, in just the right scenaro but the weight would not crush to the ground and the other 3 stands would still bear weight. Now if you're only using 1 jack stand and working directly below it, that is just asking for trouble. I almost always back up a single jackstand with another.

News Flash: working the the garage around heavy objects and power tools can be dangerous. Even full on two post and 4 post hoists have been known to fail unexpectedly. Extremely rare but it has happened. Standing under a two ton object is inherently dangerous to a degree.

If we don't take responsibility for our own safety and actions, expect a set of jackstands to soon cost $500 to cover corporate liability and the costs of frivilous lawsuits.

This sort of "experiment" makes a well proven jack stand design appear to be critically flawed though intentional misuse. Sort of like when NBC news was caught using ignitors to ensure that a "test crash" caught on camera would result in a firery crash.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-199...1335-story.html

Just for clarity -- I'm not against pin type either!

Well said. beerchug.gif
Steve
QUOTE(Steve @ May 19 2020, 02:24 PM) *

I know this has been discussed before with some gruesome pictures... but who in there right mind would use ratcheting jack stands? Most people use the ones with the pins. To easy to kick that lever and have the car fall on you.

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers!! Back in the late 70's with my first 914, I was very young and much skinnier. I remember using the lever type jack stand as something to push against with my foot to get leverage to break loose a frozen nut. I realized i was pushing against the lever with my foot. No the jack did not come down, but it freaked me out, so I bought the pin type. Even with the pin type I am still very careful not to rock the car or touch the jack. I also now have a Bendpack scissor lift, so i rarely use jack stands anymore.
beerchug.gif slap.gif
Carbon-14
Jackstands Recall
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/bu...-of-collapsing/
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t&id=359643
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/454000-harbor-...isk-of-collapse
My standard operating procedure was to wire them shut, with baling or fence wire.
I inspected every set I purchased, and found the manufacturing tolerances poor, the cast serrations and toggle interface too easily tripped by the slightest movement of the toggle handle.
Frightening to think of what could happen in a failure.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/search?Dy=1...;Ntt=jackstands
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...er-porsche.html
Bags
https://www.santiam.net/matjack_low_pressur...fting_bags.html
https://www.holmatro.com/en/industrial/lifting-bag-hlb-16
jdamiano
Who needs expensive Harbor Freight jack stands anyways. These fine fellows surely don’t.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2782174363052...e&ref=share
Superhawk996
QUOTE(jdamiano @ May 22 2020, 10:15 AM) *

Who needs expensive Harbor Freight jack stands anyways. These fine fellows surely don’t.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2782174363052...e&ref=share

yikes.gif yikes.gif

givemebeer.gif Watch this stromberg.gif
Coondog
Click to view attachment
Cairo94507
My brother had 2 of the 6 ton red/blk jack stands he bought from HF a while ago. Still looked like new. Went to HF in Pleasant Hill to do the recall and they said, "Those are not our jack stands"- despite having the exact same jack stands sitting on the shelf. He pointed that out and he said "Those are new ones. They have only been red for 90 days." He had bought mine from HF probably 1-2 years ago. He said, "Great. Thanks. Have a nice weekend." Went home and tossed them in the recycle can. He didn't want to give them to anyone that could end up being hurt if they failed. beerchug.gif
Rufus
For anyone who’s interested, here’s a link to the recall:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCLRPT-20E016-6561.PDF
PlaysWithCars
QUOTE(jdamiano @ May 22 2020, 07:15 AM) *

Who needs expensive Harbor Freight jack stands anyways. These fine fellows surely don’t.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2782174363052...e&ref=share
, I've made some sketchy decisions in the past, but this one goes WAY beyond my ability to rationalize the risk.

I use the ratchet jacks, and will continue to when needed (although the 2-post I installed this weekend should minimize the need piratenanner.gif ). I have had zero problems with the ratchet style for 20yrs until about 6 months ago when I discovered one of the stands I was getting ready to set the car onto wasn't fully engaged. Had never experienced this before but am very aware of it now and I suspect that what I experienced is the root of the problems others have had. When I raise the post on the stand the pawl ratcheted just as it always had, but it didn't drop all of the way back into the catch on the post. As I was setting the car down I noticed that the release lever on one stand was not in the same position as the other 3. Further inspection revealed that it wasn't fully seated. This was an older stand and some foreign material was creating drag on the release pivot so that gravity was not enough to return it to the fully engaged position. All of my stands received a thorough cleaning and lube following that. They are all now functioning as new, but I'll always check the position of the release lever before putting a load on them.

For what its worth, I've had similar experiences with pin type stands. After setting the height then moving them, the pin worked its way part way out and was only engaging one half of the stand. Same procedure with them now: make sure the protrusion of the pin is as expected before setting a load on them.

As Superhawk said, working under a load is dangerous and its up to the user to be aware of the proper operation of the equipment and check it before putting yourself in danger.
VaccaRabite
QUOTE(PlaysWithCars @ May 25 2020, 10:32 PM) *


For what its worth, I've had similar experiences with pin type stands. After setting the height then moving them, the pin worked its way part way out and was only engaging one half of the stand. Same procedure with them now: make sure the protrusion of the pin is as expected before setting a load on them.

As Superhawk said, working under a load is dangerous and its up to the user to be aware of the proper operation of the equipment and check it before putting yourself in danger.


The pin types I have have safety pins on the pins so that can't happen.
Unless you don't use the safety pins.

Always check your load and gear!
Zach
Root_Werks
QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ May 19 2020, 09:22 PM) *

Just so we are clear, the guy that was under his 914 when a pawl style jack stand failed was a World member and Admin.

When Gint had his incident that was when I shoved my pawl types under a workbench and bought several pin types.

Zach


I remember that, also the day I placed my pawl types in the metal recycle and bought 4 sets of pin types.
mountainroads
QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ May 19 2020, 03:07 PM) *


Generally speaking you can't get the pin kind at Walmart, FLAPS, or Harbor Freight. And when you can they are way more expensive. To get the pin type you are suddenly bumped into shop tools, and they are out of the price range of the guy just wanting to change his oil.

So, the vast majority of people that use jackstands use the pawl type. And those people are better off then the even larger majority that don't use anything at all.

Zach


I MUST be missing something. How the hell can jack stands with a mechanical ratcheting mechanism be less expensive than stands with a simple pin? I have multiple basic pin-type sets that I've acquired over the years. None cost more than available ratcheting types. Frankly, I'm not a big HF fan for several reasons, unless you want a throw-away tool you can abuse a few times with a clear conscience and then toss when it craps out on you. Certainly nothing safety-related.

- MR
beech4rd
We don't need no stinking' jackstands! We're Porsche guys!

However, it's always a good idea to place the wheels below the car lest anything goes wrong.



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