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930cabman
We are attempting fitting a 2.7 into our 1974 rustout hulk but have come across another hurtle. I have had a 2.7 kicking around for awhile and "assumed" we could go through it with new bearings/rings/..... and have a nice power plant. Not so quick there. The head stud issue is well known and I recently found when the magnesium cases are disassembled the crankshaft bores no longer return to a round/aligned condition.

I want to believe someone out there can get these magnesium cases in serviceable condition with good crank bores and good head stud bores.

thanks
gereed75
There are several places that do this. Ollie’s and competition engineering are two old standbys. They have relatively long lead times - 8 weeks or so. Contact them for details

Also prepare for $ - figure $2500 at least

There are some alternative places. You are in the Northeast. I have heard of a few places that do it, but do not have details. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

Suggest you post to Pelican engine rebuild forum. There are a lot more knowledgeable people listening on that board.

If you are doing heads, I recommend Craig Garret. 616-818-6629 He list often on Pelican. Also Anchor. https://anchoratlantic.com/ not sure either does case work

Just saw that you posted over on Pelican. Do not know the details of your head stud issues. Check out “homebuilt by Jeff” on YouTube. He went through a complete case salvage with major spigot bore issues using a really competent rebuild shop in LA. Assume large coin. you can pick up these case for fairly cheap if yours can’t be fixed (they will still need machined). Karl Hens down at Thoroughbred Racing in Corry PA has a shitload of them. He also rebuilds a lot of motors. He can answer any questions about machinists also.
Luke M
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 20 2021, 06:41 AM) *

We are attempting fitting a 2.7 into our 1974 rustout hulk but have come across another hurtle. I have had a 2.7 kicking around for awhile and "assumed" we could go through it with new bearings/rings/..... and have a nice power plant. Not so quick there. The head stud issue is well known and I recently found when the magnesium cases are disassembled the crankshaft bores no longer return to a round/aligned condition.

I want to believe someone out there can get these magnesium cases in serviceable condition with good crank bores and good head stud bores.

thanks



What did Larry say was wrong with your case? I've rebuilt a few mag case 911 engines. The machine work on a 2.7 isn't going to be cheap. Line bore, Deck height, case/head stud inserts, oil bypass mod, don't forget to do an insert in the Intermediate shaft case through stud as well. Not needed but dowel the mains too if you have the means.

Ollie's did all my 2.7 case machine work. I'd have to look for my receipt to see what it all cost but that was also 16 years ago.

Here's their price list : http://www.olliesmachine.com/uploads/ollie..._March_2019.pdf

I had all that done on my 2.7 case when I built it up to a RS. Pm or give me a call about it.
mate914
Your close to a lot of engine builders. Karl Hens is my choice.
Matt
brant
The machine work on a mag case adds 3k to the rebuild over an aluminum case

Thus should be calculated into the comparison to a 3.0/3.2 motor
Lots of places can do this work
But machine work is a paid skill
mepstein
Yea, unfortunately that’s the truth. Especially 2.7’s.
Superhawk996
Had all my 2.4L case work done by Ollies.

All part of working on mag cases. Really not a big deal.
mb911
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Feb 20 2021, 08:30 AM) *

Had all my 2.4L case work done by Ollies.

All part of working on mag cases. Really not a big deal.

agree.gif

Same here. Its just money right lol
sixnotfour
Has to be torqued together with the nose bearing , as it locates / centralizes the front half of the case .. for a proper main bore check...Unless it spun a main bearing ,, its repairable..
930cabman
QUOTE(brant @ Feb 20 2021, 10:06 AM) *

The machine work on a mag case adds 3k to the rebuild over an aluminum case

Thus should be calculated into the comparison to a 3.0/3.2 motor
Lots of places can do this work
But machine work is a paid skill


Exactly, why would we invest in a magnesium case when a 3.0 aluminum case appears more durable. Anybody have an extra 3.0 case in their back pocket.
thanks always
Superhawk996
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 20 2021, 02:38 PM) *


Exactly, why would we invest in a magnesium case when a 3.0 aluminum case appears more durable. Anybody have an extra 3.0 case in their back pocket.
thanks always



All depends what you want.

For me it's light weight and a period correct engine. Personally, I'm not interested in 3.x engines.

For anyone reading, please feel free to send me your "scrap" mag cases. I'll even pay for the shipping laugh.gif
sixnotfour
I have a small main bearing 3.0 case 6k..... Carefull, What you wish for....
mepstein
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 20 2021, 02:38 PM) *

QUOTE(brant @ Feb 20 2021, 10:06 AM) *

The machine work on a mag case adds 3k to the rebuild over an aluminum case

Thus should be calculated into the comparison to a 3.0/3.2 motor
Lots of places can do this work
But machine work is a paid skill


Exactly, why would we invest in a magnesium case when a 3.0 aluminum case appears more durable. Anybody have an extra 3.0 case in their back pocket.
thanks always


For me, once you add in the durability, power, fuel injection and final cost, the 3.2 makes sense. That doesn't mean it's the best. It just checks a lot of my wishes.

I still want an engine builder friend of mine to build me an aluminum case 2.0 hotrod that will rev to 8K+ and make glorious sounds. Just because.
914forme
You can always find another 2.2, 2.4, and 2.7L from somebody in running condition. PM me I have 2.7L on a stand right now I am planning on selling. Put it in and run it.

Why a mag case engine,

Conversion is easier, no special fly wheels, its a bolt in operation.
Mag case sound right
tad bit lighter
cheaper to purchase

Why go latter 3.0 - 4.0L
more power
perceived better reliability
easier EFI options from the factory
did I mention more power
Some people need it, some don't. 914 like any car a sum of the parts, and are an system unto themselves.

Just remember as your displacement increases your bank account decreases.

But then I fight this battle with every sports car I own. My Boxster build I am currently looking at a 3.8L 355HP engine thinking, yeah I need that. I have driven my Boxster for 1000 miles. screwy.gif
930cabman
QUOTE(914forme @ Feb 20 2021, 05:22 PM) *

You can always find another 2.2, 2.4, and 2.7L from somebody in running condition. PM me I have 2.7L on a stand right now I am planning on selling. Put it in and run it.

Why a mag case engine,

Conversion is easier, no special fly wheels, its a bolt in operation.
Mag case sound right
tad bit lighter
cheaper to purchase

Why go latter 3.0 - 4.0L
more power
perceived better reliability
easier EFI options from the factory
did I mention more power
Some people need it, some don't. 914 like any car a sum of the parts, and are an system unto themselves.

Just remember as your displacement increases your bank account decreases.

But then I fight this battle with every sports car I own. My Boxster build I am currently looking at a 3.8L 355HP engine thinking, yeah I need that. I have driven my Boxster for 1000 miles. screwy.gif


From what I can tell aluminum cases are generally more forgiving than magnesium, I am getting a 2.7 education for sure. Basically we are making the /6 conversion for added power, the finish product will not see a track or car show, but reliability is up there for a priority. The case I was hoping to use had previously been "repaired" with a timesert's and have since failed. I found a replacement case from Cali., when we unpacked it the head stud sockets in the case had also been "repaired". Both cases left little/no material left to work with.

Back at square 1, looks like I will be shaking the money tree a bit more
gereed75
Sorry that you had bad luck with the first and second mag cases. Not sure why that would be the case haha. There are plenty of sound mag cases available that can be built into perfectly reliable motors. 2.7 is pushing the limit in the cylinder spigot bore area in mag cases, but again, good unmolested cases are out there - $1500 - $2000 should get you a set. Between Karl Hens and Henry Schmidt you should have 50 or so to chose from

If I was building something to last 200,000 miles, make 225+ hp, and last the next 50 years, I would hunt down a 3.X aluminum case motor. If I want a fun build 2.2 - 2.7 that will last my lifetime of recreational use, a machined mag case, fully case saved, works just fine.

If I needed the ultimate small bore badass motor, break out the check book, find an early aluminum case and build away (as Mep suggested).

It is a matter of what will make you happy. My narrow body, mag cased 2.4 street toy makes me very happy. Not really worried that the cases will fail anytime soon.
davehg
My Ollie’s bill was closer to $4k for my 2.7, and it got all the works including oil bypass, decking, inserts, and a twin plug conversion. Running it with a Solex cam and Webers. The 2.7s are wonderful engines when built, as the make more HP than my stock 3.2 with a Steve Wong chip. I think their bad rap is due to the emissions crap which retained excessive heat and caused the warping. Shops would just torque down the heads and covers making things worse.

My 3.2 is sure fun with all the torque but the sound and performance of a 2.7 - can’t wait. Plus it looks way sexier than my 3.2.

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sixnotfour
numbers matching
rick 918-S
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Feb 21 2021, 12:16 AM) *

numbers matching


Wow that's cool!
930cabman
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Feb 21 2021, 01:16 AM) *

numbers matching


I suppose it's true, "anything can be saved", but at what cost and what value. We have been successful in the historic building restoration business for many years and can fix anything, but often it is less expensive and will provide better long term value if we replicate with new materials. From what I understand Classic Porsche has new cases, now we are really digging into our pockets.
mepstein
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 21 2021, 09:28 AM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Feb 21 2021, 01:16 AM) *

numbers matching


I suppose it's true, "anything can be saved", but at what cost and what value. We have been successful in the historic building restoration business for many years and can fix anything, but often it is less expensive and will provide better long term value if we replicate with new materials. From what I understand Classic Porsche has new cases, now we are really digging into our pockets.

If I have the story right, Porsche had some nos 3.2 engine case blanks that they had machined and sold. Now that they have the setup ready to go, it would be nice if they continued to make them. It's still not inexpensive once you add up all the parts to complete an engine but greater availability helps.

It also helps to consider that while the cost of a rebuild isn't cheap, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the engine to last most of us for the rest of our lives. Most of us use our Porsche's as play cars and 2-3K/year is probably average.
Mark Henry
QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 21 2021, 09:28 AM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Feb 21 2021, 01:16 AM) *

numbers matching


I suppose it's true, "anything can be saved", but at what cost and what value. We have been successful in the historic building restoration business for many years and can fix anything, but often it is less expensive and will provide better long term value if we replicate with new materials. From what I understand Classic Porsche has new cases, now we are really digging into our pockets.


I bet those cases are close to $10K.

Has anyone heard from Adam (catorse)? He makes the new 3.6 cases and a few guys on the bird were trying to get a hold of him.
Anyways he said they are looking at doing the 2.0-2.7 cases, but they will be likely about the same cost as the 3.6 case, so last I checked IIRC it was $6500.
Superhawk996
In the grand scheme of maching up mag cases, $6500 for a completely new casting CNC machined, would be sort of "resonable". Still wouldn't be Mag which would be sort of a downer for me but I get it. Hardly anyone casting Mag these days.
sixnotfour
2.4 mag ,,best engine ever.. Next week .I'll be rebuilding mine ..Ralph Meaney Built in 1983.. Its been in 3 914s , Rod bearing knocker...
2.4 7r case, E P/Cs, Solex cams Carbs
horizontally-opposed
QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 20 2021, 01:30 PM) *


For me, once you add in the durability, power, fuel injection and final cost, the 3.2 makes sense. That doesn't mean it's the best. It just checks a lot of my wishes.


Can't argue with it, and mine would be a 3.2-based 3.4 with Motronic if building a 914-6 GT…

QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 20 2021, 01:30 PM) *


I still want an engine builder friend of mine to build me an aluminum case 2.0 hotrod that will rev to 8K+ and make glorious sounds. Just because.


But this isn't far off from my dream for a narrow six-cyl 914: a mag-case 2.2S with MFI that revs to 8000 rpm backed up by short gears for 2/3/4 and a cruiser 5th.

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Feb 21 2021, 09:44 AM) *

In the grand scheme of maching up mag cases, $6500 for a completely new casting CNC machined, would be sort of "resonable". Still wouldn't be Mag which would be sort of a downer for me but I get it. Hardly anyone casting Mag these days.


Not sure about price, but machined mag case got FIA approval for early 911 race cars—and startup doesn't look too far off.

https://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/sh...c-Racing/page20
sixnotfour
12,500
https://noonanrace.com/products/911-porsche-case
930cabman
QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 21 2021, 09:56 AM) *

QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 21 2021, 09:28 AM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Feb 21 2021, 01:16 AM) *

numbers matching


I suppose it's true, "anything can be saved", but at what cost and what value. We have been successful in the historic building restoration business for many years and can fix anything, but often it is less expensive and will provide better long term value if we replicate with new materials. From what I understand Classic Porsche has new cases, now we are really digging into our pockets.

If I have the story right, Porsche had some nos 3.2 engine case blanks that they had machined and sold. Now that they have the setup ready to go, it would be nice if they continued to make them. It's still not inexpensive once you add up all the parts to complete an engine but greater availability helps.

It also helps to consider that while the cost of a rebuild isn't cheap, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the engine to last most of us for the rest of our lives. Most of us use our Porsche's as play cars and 2-3K/year is probably average.


True and true. The 2.7 engines had a good run, close to 50 years and often hard/hot miles. Our 914/6 may get 2k miles per year at best and if it lasts 50 years I will be 120 y/o
horizontally-opposed
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Feb 21 2021, 12:38 PM) *


So there's billet aluminum ($12.5k) and billet magnesium cases ($?) out there. Interesting. Can see it for racing applications, less so for street cars.

Next one I do will be mag case, and there's something to be said for keeping a case that came out of Zuffenhausen once upon a time, even for a mere six conversion, but one does begin to wonder: What's the life expectancy of the base metal in a 50yo mag case?
stownsen914
Pretty sure that ITG small bore case pictured above is aluminum? I've been following his thread on Pelican. Would be interesting if it were mag ...

Mag cases are needing more work in general. They're fragile, and 2.7L motors were hard on them due to heat and pulling studs. The 7R cases (late 2.4 and 2.7) are considered the best from a structural perspective if you can find one that hasn't been abused.
jd74914
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Feb 21 2021, 12:44 PM) *

In the grand scheme of maching up mag cases, $6500 for a completely new casting CNC machined, would be sort of "resonable". Still wouldn't be Mag which would be sort of a downer for me but I get it. Hardly anyone casting Mag these days.

You might be surprised, particularly in "Aerospace Alley." smile.gif I've gotten magnesium sand castings for some racecar parts from some local vendors who do mainly helicopter work.



QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Feb 22 2021, 12:32 PM) *

Pretty sure that ITG small bore case pictured above is aluminum? I've been following his thread on Pelican. Would be interesting if it were mag ...

I thought mag, but crazy heavy (like 65#).
mepstein
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 22 2021, 02:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Feb 21 2021, 12:44 PM) *

In the grand scheme of maching up mag cases, $6500 for a completely new casting CNC machined, would be sort of "resonable". Still wouldn't be Mag which would be sort of a downer for me but I get it. Hardly anyone casting Mag these days.

You might be surprised, particularly in "Aerospace Alley." smile.gif I've gotten magnesium sand castings for some racecar parts from some local vendors who do mainly helicopter work.



QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Feb 22 2021, 12:32 PM) *

Pretty sure that ITG small bore case pictured above is aluminum? I've been following his thread on Pelican. Would be interesting if it were mag ...

I thought mag, but crazy heavy (like 65#).

He will pair it down. The early 911 guys are running out of 2.0 aluminum cases.
bahnzai
Cabman,
I have a ‘67 sand cast aluminum case engine, built as a 2.4, that I have been thinking about selling as a long block. Unless you are set on larger displacement. PM me for details if Interested.
Thanks
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