Primer Question, Prime now, drive, paint later. |
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Primer Question, Prime now, drive, paint later. |
ruby914 |
Feb 26 2012, 02:47 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 26-April 09 From: Hawthorne, Ca Member No.: 10,305 Region Association: None |
OK, I have my flares on.
I am fumbling through the clean up body work that goes with that and finding other body work that is needed as I go. Cass Nawrocki's book has already helped. The thing is, this car is one of my (2) 914 DDs In order for me to get clean lines on the body I need to remove the last 3, 4, 5 or 6 paint jobs. I have some 5 Star 5425 X Treme 2K Direct to metal Primer Filler/ Sealer. After I go down to the metal and spray with the sealer mix ratio, can I trust this to drive the car? Even park out side in the moist air, in the rain??? Then paint later, 6 months, 1 year later ?? What can I get away with? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Attached thumbnail(s) |
underthetire |
Feb 26 2012, 02:56 PM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
Rust will form through primer faster than you think. Then there is the problem with grease and road grime on the fresh primer. Can you, sure, but it's gonna be more work later.
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tomeric914 |
Feb 26 2012, 03:18 PM
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#3
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One Lap of America in a 914! Group: Members Posts: 1,263 Joined: 25-May 08 From: Syracuse, NY Member No.: 9,101 Region Association: North East States |
Painting is the easy part. The prep work is what determines a good paint job from a lousy one.
If you are laying down a good primer, sealer and surfacer, (Rustoleum doesn't count as any of those) you're 85% of the way there. To do it right later, you'll need to strip it all down and start over. Paint it now. |
VaccaRabite |
Feb 26 2012, 05:37 PM
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#4
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,554 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
If its a DD, then don't strip all the other paint down. Seal, skim up and go from there. The paint is rust protection.
Zach |
Katmanken |
Feb 26 2012, 09:43 PM
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#5
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
No experience with your Star 5425 X Treme 2K Direct to metal Primer Filler/ Sealer.
I can speak for the two part catalyzing self etching primer by Dupont. Sets up like a brick on bare metal, and unlike most other primers, (red, grays, etc) it is waterproof. Then primer/surfacer goes over that. Some epoxies may work as the initial coat, but haven't tried them. Unfortunately, the Dupont self etching primer is baby poo tan. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
sean_v8_914 |
Feb 26 2012, 09:54 PM
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#6
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
most primer is hygroscopic and lacks UV protection. it will hold moisture and decompose with sun exposure. shoot a thin coat of paint. sand it off when you are ready for a real paint job but a top coat is required over primer
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scotty b |
Feb 26 2012, 10:32 PM
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#7
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
If you can keep it inside and not drive it when it is wet, you'll probably be fine. But if it gets wet once it will not hold up. I would advise against it, do as Zach suggested and sand the car down to the original paint and work up from there unless you really want it stripped bare.
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ruby914 |
Feb 28 2012, 03:08 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 26-April 09 From: Hawthorne, Ca Member No.: 10,305 Region Association: None |
Thanks Everyone,
I have heard two different theories on painting. One is to strip all the paint because you don't know where any rust may be. The other is to not touch the original primer because "the factory primer is the best your going to get". I can see both sides. I also can see cracks in my paint in places and have sanded that down to find a rust lines. The last car, I sent a roller for paint. I saw them scraping off at least one layer of paint. It looked great when I got it back but with in a year it started to delam on a fender. They gladly fixed that but the next year some rust was pushing up paint. Then after 3 days of rain and no choice but to tarp it I found hundreds of small bubbles in the paint. Again, fixed with no charge. This car is no virgin. Hell hole is fixed by me. From a PO, one door was late one early. looks like both front 1/4s were replaced. Filler was found on the R rear 1/4 as well. I want to do a good job of this. My thought was to remove everything at a later date and send a roller to a paint shop for a proper job. This time I planed to strip and see how far I could get with the body work maybe even paint it. With shaping, paint and glassing over 250 surfboards, I feel I can do a good job of clean lines. At this point It looks like I will follow a little from each Zach, Sean and Scotty. |
ThePaintedMan |
Feb 28 2012, 07:08 AM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,886 Joined: 6-September 11 From: St. Petersburg, FL Member No.: 13,527 Region Association: South East States |
From what you're saying, there is already a good amount of spider rust underneath that paint anyway. Which means you'd have to take it all the way down at some point. You can do this and probably much better than the body shop in question. Since you're already used to spraying, the biggest issue you'll have is prepping and finding the right materials. I would defer to Scotty on this one. I don't know all the rules out in California. but I do know that when you take it down to bare metal, you want a real good coat of epoxy sealer first. Some would say etch primer, which is a little older-school mentality. But definitely sealer #1. Then you would add 2k urethane primer layers and/or good quality body filler (read: Evercoat). Sand it and block it and paint! Again, defer to the experts on what kinds of paint for out there. I try to use two stage (basecoat/clearcoat) urethanes here in Florida, but single stage acrylic is also a good option, if you're not looking for an ultra-durable show quality shine. Either way, that paint has to come off at some point so you can scrape out the rust veins. However, don't take it all the way off unless you're prepared to do all of the above! Don't expect to do it all in one or even several weekends either. Perfection takes time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good luck, you can do it!
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J P Stein |
Feb 28 2012, 07:19 AM
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#10
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I ran around for 4-5 years with the flares in primer.......a rattle can etch primer, but a good one. I wanted to do everything I could to the car before a final strip (the old paint was pretty well shot) to bare metal & paint. No problems. Yeah, it got wet but parked out of the weather. Sanded the primer before shooting the whole car with etch primer.
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Andyrew |
Feb 28 2012, 09:52 AM
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#11
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California |
If you go down to the metal and spray with primer sealer (The stuff you mentioned should work), yes you can drive it. Primer sealer will protect it from rain and moisture. My suggestion is do one panel at a time and seal it afterwards that day. This will give you more practice at priming and spraying than just priming the car all at once..
Realize that when you get to start prep work, you will want to block sand most of that primer off to determine low spots to start bodywork. |
toolguy |
Feb 28 2012, 12:04 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,273 Joined: 2-April 11 From: San Diego / El Cajon Member No.: 12,889 Region Association: Southern California |
Every coat of previous paint you leave on is another persons work you're relying on to be done correctly. . . do you really want to do that ?? Also, I'd want to know whats underneath all that old paint. . You don't want to be doing this all over in a few years. I'd sand it until you hit the original primer everywhere. . . There has got to be a bunch of old door dings and filler on the sides at best. . .
By the way, PPG DP40 is in a bunch of colors, It's the best I have found for a metal etching primer that can be thinned to be a sealer also. Not cheap, but worth the expense. And do it all the apinting at the same time. PPG's instructions say it must be painted within 1 week Anything more than that, they say it must be sanded and recoated before paint. Don't leave the primer exposed to the outside. Contaminants are your enemy, and they are in the air all the time. |
scotty b |
Feb 28 2012, 02:01 PM
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#13
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
The thinking that the factory rimer is the best you can get is wrong. Modern primers nowadays are light years beyind the original ( as good as it is ).
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boogie_man |
Feb 28 2012, 06:49 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 308 Joined: 22-April 11 From: So Cal Member No.: 12,969 Region Association: Southern California |
The thinking that the factory rimer is the best you can get is wrong. Modern primers nowadays are light years beyind the original ( as good as it is ). + 100 you could block feather the layers down with like a 40 grit d/a, then to 80 block or air-file til it's pretty evened out, then I would spray or rattle can with a good etch, scuff that, then a good 2 part primer might last a bit. The problem you may have is the moisture seaping under all your hard work and surface rusting back through which means you start over/make it worse. Pull the hood and decklid, strip and prime them, that's very easy as well as the doors while they're off. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/img.photobucket.com-12969-1330476540.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/img.photobucket.com-12969-1330476540.2.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/img.photobucket.com-12969-1330476541.3.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/img.photobucket.com-12969-1330476541.4.jpg) |
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