Was Balancing Question...now some other questions, Questions are last post, hilfe bitte. |
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Was Balancing Question...now some other questions, Questions are last post, hilfe bitte. |
stephenaki |
Feb 6 2009, 07:09 AM
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#1
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Can I get this one dad?? Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 11-August 07 From: Palmetto, FL Member No.: 7,987 Region Association: None |
OK, I have a tendency to move faster than I think, amazing I got this far in life. I was reading the assembly procedures for the clutch and clutch pressure plate, as I read it talked about marking the position of the pressure plate in relation to the flywheel in order to maintain the balance. DAMNIT! Yup you guessed it I didn't do that. Primarily because I haven't had to do it with the standard block engines I have worked on before.
So, is there a way to remedy this mistake or am I just kinda hosed and, how much of a difference will it make since the rest of the motor was balanced? |
So.Cal.914 |
Feb 6 2009, 07:21 AM
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#2
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"...And it has a front trunk too." Group: Members Posts: 6,588 Joined: 15-February 04 From: Low Desert, CA./ Hills of N.J. Member No.: 1,658 Region Association: None |
I am not sure what engine this is but the PP should be close to balanced for rotation. Your FW is balanced, so unless there are guide pins and you missed them, it should be fine. Reason I say this is unless your FW is out of balance, and is placed back into balance with the install of the PP it should not matter. IMHO
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smdubovsky |
Feb 6 2009, 08:22 AM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 331 Joined: 27-September 04 From: Silver Spring, MD Member No.: 2,837 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I don't think it makes a difference. My crank, flywheel, & PP have always been balanced separately. Therefore you can replace one w/o having to use the others to rebalance. Imaging having to pull the motor apart just because you replaced the PP?
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stephenaki |
Feb 8 2009, 01:18 PM
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#4
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Can I get this one dad?? Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 11-August 07 From: Palmetto, FL Member No.: 7,987 Region Association: None |
Thanks all, I am assuming by the lack of additional posts that your observations are correct. I feel a bit better now.
Unfortunately, I didn't get to work on the motor this weekend as I am still waiting on my dial gauge and some other parts. I did clean up the distributor and the coil though so all was not totally lost. Also got my aquabox mounted on my motorcycle for my GPS along with the powerlett setup to power the GPS when I am on the road in May. Hopefully I get the dial gauge in this week so I can continue my progress on the motor. |
Mark Henry |
Feb 9 2009, 07:00 AM
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#5
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
Most good balance jobs PP to flywheel orientation is very important and it is usually marked with a "0"
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stephenaki |
Feb 13 2009, 08:51 AM
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#6
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Can I get this one dad?? Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 11-August 07 From: Palmetto, FL Member No.: 7,987 Region Association: None |
No, "0" that I can find. Next question, non-balance question. Build sequence.
So, I had the guys at Boxter do the endplay. Long story short, they only put one shim in not three so I plan on re-checking when my dial gauge comes in. Now, what can I do in the mean time? Can I assemble the pistons and cylinders and oil pump while I wait, more specifically, Haynes says pop in the cam followers before piston and cylinder assembly. Is it ok if I pop in the cam followers later? Final question, how tight should the nut on the oil strainer assembly be? I can't find any torque settings and my books only say, "don't overtighten." Could use some help on this one. Reading my type IV book it says I can pretty much do everything prior to checking endplay and have the motor almost completely assembled. |
SLITS |
Feb 13 2009, 08:54 PM
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#7
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
The question of balancing the clutch assembly with the flywheel is a matter of vibration. For the street, I would imagine that a little out would a not be a great problem. Little vibration, maybe not as smooth idle.
If severe, it would put excessive wear on bearings, maybe more crank flex and possibly wear of the pilot bearing / transmission input bearing. From observation, the Type four is internally balanced. The means you can have individual parts "zero balanced" and bolt them together and have a balanced engine. On a high rpm engine, balance is critical for smooth running, ability to reach the rpm desired, minimize crankflex and make power. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it unless I get beat up by one of three individuals. Also, I believe the factory put a slash mark in the outer diameter of the flywheel. This, when aligned the split in the case, is TDC. The factory would have balanced it and lined up the mark with the split. This should align the "O" or TDC marking on the belt pulley on the impeller. Oil strainer, I want to say 15 in/lbs of torque. 1/4 drive socket ... about 1/4 turn after nut, washer, plate contact to case would be my guess, Endplay can be set anytime you have access to the flywheel. Easier when you build it, but doable with the engine in the car. |
stephenaki |
Feb 14 2009, 10:29 AM
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#8
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Can I get this one dad?? Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 11-August 07 From: Palmetto, FL Member No.: 7,987 Region Association: None |
The question of balancing the clutch assembly with the flywheel is a matter of vibration. For the street, I would imagine that a little out would a not be a great problem. Little vibration, maybe not as smooth idle. If severe, it would put excessive wear on bearings, maybe more crank flex and possibly wear of the pilot bearing / transmission input bearing. From observation, the Type four is internally balanced. The means you can have individual parts "zero balanced" and bolt them together and have a balanced engine. On a high rpm engine, balance is critical for smooth running, ability to reach the rpm desired, minimize crankflex and make power. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it unless I get beat up by one of three individuals. Also, I believe the factory put a slash mark in the outer diameter of the flywheel. This, when aligned the split in the case, is TDC. The factory would have balanced it and lined up the mark with the split. This should align the "O" or TDC marking on the belt pulley on the impeller. Oil strainer, I want to say 15 in/lbs of torque. 1/4 drive socket ... about 1/4 turn after nut, washer, plate contact to case would be my guess, Endplay can be set anytime you have access to the flywheel. Easier when you build it, but doable with the engine in the car. Didn't see a slash mark but what I did have pointed out to me by the tech at Boxster was a small hole for a guide pin that lines up with my flywheel. It was missing and after going home, I found it on the old crank. Pulled it out and put it in the new crank and it lines the flywheel up just right. I would assume this would do the same as a 'slash' mark. I will take the time to inspect the PP better and see if there is anything similar in nature that would indicate that it can only go back on one way. I am learning quite a lot with this motor and it makes my MG motor's look like child's play. I can't thank everyone enough for all the help and feedback as it has been tremendous in helping me along with this process. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
hcdmueller |
Feb 14 2009, 10:45 AM
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#9
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????????????? Group: Members Posts: 542 Joined: 4-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 5,527 Region Association: England |
The oil strainer is listed at 9 ft/lbs in my bus book. My 914 book is out in the garage. I would think the torque is the same for the 914 block. I do know that if you overtighten it the block will crack in a very bad way. The three 914 flywheels I have all had a mark on the circumference that lined up with the split in the case for TDC on #1. I am surprised yours doesn't have one. At least you found the index pin and put it on the crank.
I hope the weather gets better here. If it doesn't I won't get a chance to drive mine before my deployment. Good luck with yours. |
Jake Raby |
Feb 14 2009, 11:34 AM
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#10
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Yes, it makes a difference. Having balanced hundreds of assemblies I can say that the index of components as they are balanced is very important. This is the reason why we index EVERY pressure plate bolt per position. The pressure plate and flywheel are THE most important components to balance and index due to their diameter and mass.
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stephenaki |
Feb 14 2009, 12:01 PM
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#11
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Can I get this one dad?? Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 11-August 07 From: Palmetto, FL Member No.: 7,987 Region Association: None |
The oil strainer is listed at 9 ft/lbs in my bus book. My 914 book is out in the garage. I would think the torque is the same for the 914 block. I do know that if you overtighten it the block will crack in a very bad way. The three 914 flywheels I have all had a mark on the circumference that lined up with the split in the case for TDC on #1. I am surprised yours doesn't have one. At least you found the index pin and put it on the crank. I hope the weather gets better here. If it doesn't I won't get a chance to drive mine before my deployment. Good luck with yours. Hey Chris, snowing like a mofo here as well. Definitely not motorcycle friendly weather either. Also makes it more challenging to work on the motor since it is in the garage...in the cold! Keep your head down, hope to see you when you get back. Jake, thanks, will see if there are marks somewhere on the flywheel tomorrow, a bit dark at the moment and my tiny German garage has an electrical problem that keeps flipping the breaker so no light! |
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