Bringing out the dead Options

[Jeff Hail]

Toys in the Attic

[Jeff Hail]

Eric?? Eric?? Leave me alone I am busy.

The right side with qtr cut for the fat ass.

[Jeff Hail]

The left side (un cut wheelwell).

Big difference!!

Eric?

[Jeff Hail]

Temporary fit.

I am happy and still have room to spare at the flare and inner wheelhouse.

Only means one thing... GO WIDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's already a 17X9 wheel..

[Jeff Hail]

Maybe I missed something. Why are you moving the trailing arms out? Great work by the way.

Yup!

[Eric_Shea]

The Redhead says "Mmmmmmmm... Hubs and bearings for dinner tonight!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

[Jeff Hail]

That even looks like her!!!!!!!!!!

Cute! The girl Eric, the girl.

[Mike Bellis]

Maybe I missed something. Why are you moving the trailing arms out? Great work by the way.

Yup!

That did not answer my question. Why?

[Jeff Hail]

I am only pushing the track width out 12mm per side at the suspension control points but in a nutshell…

A wider track on semi trailing geometry will increase the roll center at that end of the car, thus making it softer in roll (less body roll). This is because the car's CG will not change, and thus the vertical distance between the CG and the roll center at that end of the car will increase, kind of like using a torque-wrench with a longer handle that pivots at the roll center. A wider track will tend to reduce the load transfer to the outside when cornering, which in general will increase cornering ability since more traction is gained from the inside tires. It is important to maintain an optimum ratio between the front and rear tracks as a means to managing the load transfer from the front to the back with resulting balance between the two ends of the car. Wider track width can achieve a result similar to lowering the center of gravity height, less weight transfer allows the inside to carry more of the load, generate more total traction for the car. Notice I said similar because CG is another aspect. Multiply tire vertical load by the tire performance curve, = available cornering traction generated by the tire. The outer tire is heavily loaded and gains less traction per pound of load added; the inner tire will generate more traction per pound of vertical load. Effectively gaining more total cornering force.

Other ways to increase track width that I am not a fan of.
Wider than optimal wheel and tires:
Additional weight. Too much tire is not an effective gain. Suspension and body limitations.

Wider wheels with low offset:
Moving the wheel-tire centerline out will not change the suspension geometry, but it does change the relationship between the tire and the suspension. Moving the wheels out will reduce the effective rate of springs. Increased loading of the wheel bearings since the load will be cantilevered further out which increases the possibility of deflection/ twisting of the trailing arm under high loading.

Wheel spacers: (very thick ones)
Rear:
Same increased loading of the wheel bearings since the load will be cantilevered further out. Additional weight of the spacers and longer wheel studs.
Front:
Widening the front track using spacers increases the front scrub radius, which can increase the steering effort and cause kickback. It also increases the load on the bearings.

Other:
A smidgen extra access to the valve covers on the six.

[ghuff]

I had to stop in this thread to say you rule. This is excellent, and a lot of work.

[MrHyde]

Question about the new rear suspension pickup setup you're putting in....

Would this setup be " worth the effort " for anyone that has to do the rear long, wheel house repairs that you had to do on your car ?
The reason I ask is because I am going to be replacing the rear wheel house and rear long on my car and if I have to remove the outer suspension console anyways.. upgrading the whole setup might be worth a look..
I'm undecided weather I'm going to put on the fender fares or not and I most likely wont go over 150 ish HP with mostly daily driving with a few track days for fun..
Cheers and keep up the good work.. its been a informative read for sure. !

[Jeff Hail]

Would this be worth the effort? Absolutley it would be BUT if you are not raising the pickups there might not be enough meat at the bottom of the long to support the custom pickup from a factory control point perspective.

You could still use the 2inch raised pickup and keep the stock ride height without any issues.

The benefits of Chris's pickups: No flex, no rust, no worrying whats inside the existing pickups (rusts from the inside out), adjustability to lower the ride height while keeping the original geometry. Ability to add track width. No deflection between the OEM inner and outer console as the pickups are one integral unit. No cracking of inner ears.

So far it is the only alternative on the market that is simple and straight forward this side of of tube frameing.

Ive looked at Keith's setup and it's a lot more work with more room for error if you ask me.
http://www.vehiclecraft.com/pictures/Cust_...Peare/index.htm

[MrHyde]

I looked at the link you posted.. You're right.. it does sound like a lot more tricky setup than Chris' one... hmm You mention you could still have the pickups welded in 2 in' up and still have stock ride height.. It might just be early to wrap my head around this but how would that be possible... while keeping the propper geometry ?

[Jeff Hail]

The Redhead says "Mmmmmmmm... Hubs and bearings for dinner tonight!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

Still haunts me Eric (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[Jeff Hail]

Busy with holiday cheer and other peoples stuff.

A few minutes to play.

The pickups are where they need to be. Lets perform some more alchemy.
Started installing the reinforcements. Left side outer first... because if its going to shrink I'd rather the camber go more negative than the other way. Then the inner.

I still have to trim some more at the bottom and fit those reinforcements.

Ran out of C02/Argon. No gas stations open this time of night.

[Jeff Hail]

RT side in!!!

Good feeling when the pickup fixture just drops out and doesnt have to be wrestled.

[nsr-jamie]

This is my favorite thread, I just spent the last 4 hours reading it all from page one!! Truly excellent !!! I wish I had you working on my car. Please keep up the incredible work. I learned a lot reading through the entire thread, thank you

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Jeff Hail]

Non stop!

[Jeff Hail]

Finishing up the pickups. Lots of weld grinding and fitment of the closing plates. This is where I wish I had a TIG instead if a MIG.

By the way the price Chris Foley charges to install these is a bargain considering the labor. I think he should get twice as much based on the fitment, welding, grinding etc.

I am just about done. One last piece to weld in. I buddy of mine shows up in his brand spanking new 2011 German Turbo P-Car and wants me to install an aftermarket muffler. I turn him down! He asks why? I respond because if I keep doing stuff for other people my stuff doesnt get done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!He gets it and understands.

I am fitting pieces to weld and he says DONT DO THAT. By the way he is a real honest rocket scientist. He makes bus's fly. He then grabs a piece of cardboard and traces out a template. DO IT LIKE THIS.I hate it when he does this. He doesnt know jack about cars except how to write the check when he buys the latest German Hot Rod. This guy plays with things that fly fast and well he makes me think in a challenging way because he's smart...really smart because he is a airframe engineer and has more degree's than a thermometer.

He says "car doesnt have a roof... it flex's a lot. Flexing is not good". Why not tie this reinforcement into the torque box? Ding, ding light bulb goes off and I have to admit he is right. So I make the change.

So a little product improvement "why I am in here". Fab a modified piece.

The original closing plate on top of the "improvement piece". Extends forward into the long. Makes sense.

[Jeff Hail]

Eric,
I really have been working. The other side.