Carbs...or Fuel Injection?, I'm confused Options

[JimFitz33]

Hey Guys,
I'm about 6 months into searching and researching these cars(914) and from what I gather...they were designed for fuel injection and should have fuel injection to work properly. I've read the warnings of poor engine runnings and bad gas mileage and all...but I still see SO many great cars that I've passed up because they are carbed. Can someone give me a little context in how to think about this stuff? I'm not a gear head and don't have enough knowledge to know why and why not. Anybody? I know what George at Auto Atlanta thinks....what about the rest of you guys? I'm a newbie and need your sage advice. Thoughts guys?
Thanks for any clarity or perspective.

Jim

[colingreene]

I like my carbs, they offer more performance and will actually run my large motor.
fuel injection was not something i wanted because i wanted more power than it would support.

[Rand]

More power than FI would support? That has to be the dumbest statement ever. (General terms Colin. I get Djet doesn't turn your crank.) Ok, this is why this topic is so heated. Buy a modern carbureted car because all large motors require them today. Good luck with that.

I love carbs. I love FI.

The engine has to be built for it. What cam? Build a motor for carbs and you'll get great performance. Just don't slap carbs on a stock engine. Look at aftermarket FI and get all the benefits of modern technology. Your cold starts and altitude changes will thank you.

[IronHillRestorations]

Poorly matched carbs, worn out carbs, or poorly configured carbs give carbs a bad rap. Quality carbs with the correct jet and venturi package are not bad at all, and I wouldn't have a problem buying a car with a properly configured carbureted engine.

Fuel injection is a more precise metering of fuel and can result in better fuel economy and longer engine life. But notice I said "can". I like injection too, but when expensive components go south and the home mechanic doesn't have the means to trouble shoot, injection can be just as bad as crappy carbs. The factory injection system on a stock engine, is hard to beat.

It all comes down to your local emissions testing, and how the car in question performs.

[Dave_Darling]

It also comes down to what the guy (or gal!) who has to work on the car is comfortable with. A lot of people didn't understand D-jet or L-jet back when these cars were new, and quite a few still don't really get them. They're a lot more comfortable with carbs than the stock FI, even on a stock motor.

Going the other way, there are people who get fuel injection just fine, but can't wrap their head around the "black magic" that makes carburetors work. Those people should stick with the FI.

If you're not the person who will be working on the car, you should have a good chat with whomever will be. See what they're comfortable with.

A good carb setup can run acceptably well on a bone-stock motor. There's more performance to be gotten if you make changes to the motor, and proper tuning of the carbs can be a bit of a pain with the stock motor, but it is possible. But I think the stock setup will work better on a stock motor, if you consider not only performance and response, but overall driveability, the ability to cope with changing conditions, fuel economy, and emissions.

--DD

[struckn]

I wouldn't pass on a nice 914 with a solid body and in mechanically good condition if it has a Carb. As mentioned you do need to have the correct cam to get a carb car to run well.

FI does give you better Gas Mileage and performance if everything in the Fuel delivery system is working correctly. But, you're talking about 30 pound fuel pressure and individual injectors for each cylendar plus a Computor.

Carbs only need 3 pounds of fuel pressure, no CPU, pretty much a simple Ignition Spark Coil Fuel system to maintain. You do need to Dial in Carbs Jets and set up the float up correctly, they are not a bolt on and go device.

[r_towle]

carbs rock, FI is best....

If you find a car you like, dont let Carbs stop you from buying it.
Many times you will find the previous owner changed nothing except the carbs and its a simple switch to go back to FI so it may actually run better.

Find a car with as little rust as possible, the carbs are the least of your worries.

Figure about $500 bucks to buy all the EFI things you may need used to get it back to the right setup.

Chris Foley, Tangerine Racing, is close enough in Hartford Ct for you to bring it up there and let him sort out the fuel issues.

Rich

[colingreene]

Fine Rand, More power than the factory injection would support.
Happy?

[thelogo]

I'm all about using d+jets on stock cam motors but just consider

100 out of 100 mechanics can work on carbs .

D-jet or l-jet maybe 5 out of 100 mechanics will mess with that

But I still haven't found em

[Rand]

Fine Rand, More power than the factory injection would support.
Happy?

Happier if you tipped a beer with me. Just talkin' shop.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[somd914]

Everyone has their opinion here...

Even the carb fanatics will likely agree that a stock cam does not work well with carbs. On the flip side, most factory FI fanatics will likely agree that you can't venture far from a stock cam and can't venture beyond 2056 displacement.

For me I tired of trying to find D-Jet components - some are no longer produced, or some only produced for specific years. I tinkered with it a lot as it ran OK but not well when I bought it. I was getting close to having it running well, but then I went for a 2056 with WebCam cam, euro pistons, and dual Weber 40 IDFs.

It's taken a little bit of learning to get the jetting correct, but 8,000 miles later I'm getting the same fuel mileage as my stock 2.0 and a nice power increase. Oh, I don't have an engine bay covered with oil as George claims is inevitable. Overall I spent less time getting my carbs to run well than I spent on my D-Jet.

Do agree that an aftermarket FI system would be sweet, but it's not in the cards for me - other upgrades are higher on the list.

Anyway, the big ticket item is rust. Find a good solid car and go from there regardless of carbs or FI.

[thelogo]

Anyway, the big ticket item is rust. Find a good solid car and go from there regardless of carbs or FI.
[/quote]





Great now that is really the bottom line on this discussion . o yeahyeah (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

























Then just out of curiosity I would assume people reading this thread are in the know


What would it cost to rebuild a stock 1.7

Pistons ,barrels ,carb cam ,and carbs ,distribute or ,fuel pump



Sounds like it could get expensive ... ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)





And what brand of carbs were the ones where you buy em but most are deffective or sticking in some way then you send em to a guy he fixes an tweaks em and they rock

And have a crazy center cable pulley linkage thing ... Post pic if you know what I'm saying

[PanelBilly]

Should we ban the carb vs FI debate?

It messes with the mojo of the team

[thelogo]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) honestly d,jet looks like a rat's nest most of the time

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

Is this the so called center plenium or throttle body

Etc

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

How come in 70 they didn't just use f,I with

Dual carb style throttle bodies


When did that start (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[SirAndy]

Carbs suck ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


FI = better gas mileage, more power, starts anywhere at the turn of the key
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

PS: Yes, the stock D-jet and L-Jet have limitations when you try to use them on highly modified engines. In which case you should replace them with a modern FI system.

PPS: Carbs belong in the museum ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[messix]

just buy the least rusty, most complete, cleanest car you can afford in that order.

that is the best money spent and will cost the least to be happy with.

if it has carbs and has a stock engine you can re install the F/I with the help from guys here that have taken good f/i systems off of rusty wreaks. just post up a want to buy.

L-Jet can be run on any of the engines with a little tweeking and will be less hassle in the long run.

[damesandhotrods]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) honestly d,jet looks like a rat's nest most of the time

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

Is this the so called center plenium or throttle body

Etc

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

How come in 70 they didn't just use f,I with

Dual carb style throttle bodies


When did that start (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Porsches with mechanical fuel injection did use individual throttle bodies. But the 914’s electronic fuel injection was designed for use in Volkswagens; Porsche just took it out of the parts bin…

[somd914]

Should we ban the carb vs FI debate?

It messes with the mojo of the team

While we are at, shall we ban the V-8 conversion debate, the Suby conversion debate, and the debate whether 914s should be left stock or not? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Claus Graf]

When buying a 914 the most important issue is rust.

Make sure you lift the inside carpet covering the longitudinals. That is where the rust is.

Yes, fuel injection is more advanced than a carburetor. Fuel injection will deliver fuel in a more precise fashion with better fuel economy than a carburetor.

I have a 1974 914 with a 1.8 fuel injected engine. Does it run? Yes! (I'm in the middle of extensive longitudinal rust repairs....)

Will I keep the 40+ year old injectors, wiring, air flow sensor and computer?

Since I have to take apart the engine (low oil pressure) I will probably put some performance parts and add carbs to it. I think it will be easier to troubleshoot and repair if it breaks down on the road.

[ripper911]

Look for a car with carbs that look like this.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i921.photobucket.com-11654-1422969924.1.jpg)