Live update (Sat) Andy's car/Cellete bench Options

[SirAndy]

Does the shop own the Celette bench, and just rent the fixtures for the car at hand?

Can you give us the low down on how a pull is made. I assume that if the body is twisted, then the attachment points are not going to line up. So what then? Attach the fixture to the body point and pull it to the proper location on the bench? What if the point is rotten like a suspension ear?

scotts owns the bench and rents the fixtures on a per day basis ... the celette center in hayward (fremont?) is probably the only one on the west coast that has the 914 specific fixtures ...

basic strategy:
put fixtures on bench, set tub on top. find the attachment point that is the closest to the factory spec and bolt that down to the bench/fixture.
start pulling/pushing the rest of the tub. if the attachment points are still good, you can fit the fixture to the body and use it for pulling. if not, you need to pull the body using other parts.

while all this sounds easy, it involves a *huge* amount of experience. you need to know where and how to push/pull to get the chassis to do what you want, sometimes you pull in two or more directions while simultaniously pushing somewhere else plus using a BFH to release tension or even reshape metal all at the same time ...

once you get *all* the fixtures to line up perfectly, you have to release them (unbolt) and make sure none of the fixtures moved away.
if they do, you need to do some more pulling.

you're done when all of the fixtures line up with the mounting points perfectly with the body *unbolted* so there's no stress on the tub ...

took only 2 days for my red car ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Andy

[jonwatts]

From watching I figured it's a lot like repairing a bent fender. You can't just start hitting it in the middle of the dent or you'll end up with a lot of stretched metal. You almost have to visualize what happened to the metal and then try to work backwards. Like Andy said it sounds easy but in practice it takes real skill, knowledge, experience.

For example, on Andy's red car one of the first bends was to push up on the passenger side long below the door. His car was wrecked (we think) in the front and rear. That's where the metal started to bend but it ended around the doors with some minor rubbing on the door jambs. So working backwards they started by straightening the long at the door. Doing this causes the long to flatten on the top side (take a paper towel tube and bend it slightly, before it folds it will flatten) so to compensate Rafael whacked the long (repeatedly) back into shape on the inside of the passenger compartment with a sledge. At the time I had no idea what he was doing because everything looked fine to me (the long didn't look flattened). But afterward it looked right as was evidenced by how well the fixtures lined up.

Sorry for going off or if I got any of the details wrong but it was really cool to witness.

[Brad Roberts]

Come on.. everyone can do this at home!!

I have learned (in old age) let the people who kickass at what they do... DO IT.

I'm glad Andy and I made some pulls of our own. You have to be able to "see" and think ahead of yourself.

I had a great time.


B

[davep]

Thanks Andy & Jon. That was what my thoughts were also, but didn't have confidence it was correct. The BFH comes in handy so many times, I guess that is why I have so many of them.

I haven't seen much talk of the six, and the results of pulling it.

[LvSteveH]

When I poured my shop slab I put in 8 pull points using grade 70 chain. My plan was to build a jig using a known straight car. That's probably the easiest way to do it for the small operator. I was not planning on pulling directly from the jig like on the Cellete bench, but rather to use it to measure/confirm after doing each pull. Obviously it would be slower, but I haven't seen a Cellete bench and 914 fixtures on ebay yet.

I have a funny feeling I have an appointment with a non-movable barrier once I get on the track.

[SirAndy]

I haven't seen much talk of the six, and the results of pulling it.

still in the works ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Andy

[davep]

Having to work and not being able to play sucks, doesn't it.

Finding Celette benches and fixtures for sale is much easier when you get the correct spelling. I know of at least one bench for sale.

[fiid]

At this juncture - couldn't he just measure Andy's car?

uhmm-uh, measure my car to what??? it's all in the reference point!

if he get's a exact measurement of the fixtures, we can replicate them. the idea is to get a exact measuremeant of height to a level ground (the bench) as well as location.

think 3-D, not 2-D ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

Yeah - I got that. My point was - since the fiture bolts to the car and your car is now about as close as you can get to reference straight - he could measure the same pickup locations on your car as on the celette.... theoretically.

It was only semi serious... probably less than that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[JMDAZED]

[ I had to register just to comment on this whole thing. This was the first time Rafael has ever used the Celette Bench. It sits in storage on the adjacent property and hasn't been touched for three years. The last car to sit on the jig was a 912 getting the "torque tube" replaced. It was fun to watch "Rafa" think about how to do it, cuz I knew he didn't know. Don't get me wrong, that guy can fix anything. I've yet been able to overchallenge him, and I try everyday. I manage Yeaman Auto Body and see wrecks everyday. Point is, once Andy said that the door on the passenger side did not align, that the first clue of the problem. Obviously, the cage was another factor. The porta power was a key tool, along with the tower, block of wood and a big hammer. Relieve the pressure after each pull and it goes farther intoo place each time. That 914-6 at the shop now is a whole different picture. Better have the beer ready!!!!

Cheers,
Jeff

[Jenny]

Hi Jeff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) , (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Jen

[jonwatts]

Uh oh, now you did it. You just admitted you manage a reputable auto body shop. Get ready to be hammered with questions. In fact here comes the first one...

What's the best wax to use on my car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)



Like her ladyship said (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) and thanks for letting us hang out in the shop.

[JMDAZED]

[ Hi thxs. Actually you want to use a "clay"brick first to remove any contaminants, i.e. fallout, overspray, tree. then apply a polymer coating, which lasts for atleast 6 months. It takes 2 applications, and you have to be in the shade. I can get this stuff if you're interested.

Jeff

[SirAndy]

That 914-6 at the shop now is a whole different picture. Better have the beer ready!!!!

you guys are running dry again? i'll swing by tomorrow and fill up the fridge!

rafael might not have used the celette in a while, but he sure knows how to pull/push those cars ...
i, for one, learned a thing or two over the weekend ...

thanks for the "heads up" ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy

PS: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[richardL]

Is there a limit to how far you can pull the body before the act of pulling weakens the metal? Or creases the body?

Is that just experience or is there some known limit?

Richard

[maf914]

Andy,

I assume the cage was cut to allow the chassis to be pulled independently, otherwise the cage would try to hold the chassis in its "bent" shape. Did this result in much misallignment of the cage members? What do you do with the cage now? Is it salvageable?

[Eric_Shea]

More info on the six. I wanna see that Phoenix rise from the ashes. She was almost cut up. Go Andy Go!

[Brad Roberts]

Andy and I are formulating a plan of attack for the restoration of that car back to original.

Which means.. you may not get those parts!! LOL


B

[Eric_Shea]

Like that thought never crossed my mind...

[echocanyons]

Andy and I are formulating a plan of attack for the restoration of that car back to original.

Are you going back to narrow body?

[McMark]

No, wider body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)