Live update (Sat) Andy's car/Cellete bench Options

[Cairo94507]

Very nice progress. I love to see these go back together when you know it is being done correctly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

Are these fixtures available to rent from someone?

Clay

[ConeDodger]

Are these fixtures available to rent from someone?

Clay

Clay,
Ask @McMark . He will know the history. I think many sets of 914 fixtures were destroyed. He was making his own last I heard.

[ClayPerrine]

Are these fixtures available to rent from someone?

Clay

Clay,
Ask @McMark . He will know the history. I think many sets of 914 fixtures were destroyed. He was making his own last I heard.

I don't want to by them, I want to rent a set to use for fixing Betty's car. I am willing to pay a rental fee and shipping both ways for them.

Clay

[JMDAZED]

Everything lines up. It's getting welded up as I type this.

[JMDAZED]

Are these fixtures available to rent from someone?

Clay

Scott Yeaman borrowed the green tipped fixtures from a shop in Oakland. Scott owns the bench and the rest of the pieces and they are in Palo Alto.

[Mueller]

Are these fixtures available to rent from someone?

Clay

Scott Yeaman borrowed the green tipped fixtures from a shop in Oakland. Scott owns the bench and the rest of the pieces and they are in Palo Alto.

So you work at Yeamans shop? Does he still have his /6 with the 3.0? Always a fun car to drive. I have not seen Scott in years since he repaired my '91 964.

[Luke M]

Hi Andy,

Do you mind if I add this info here as well?

May as well keep this thread alive with the bench and fixtures info for future references.

I purchased a set of Celette 914 fixtures from a guy in CA and the BlackHawk bench from Perry. All now in Western New York.
I mainly purchased these to fix my factory 6 and my brothers 74 914 which needed a lot of metal work.

The word was that the Celette fixtures could be a bolt-on to the BlackHawk bench.
There was even a law suite between the two about this. The issue that I just came across is that my bench and fixtures do not mate. The bench is way wider then the Celette fixtures. I even tried fitting the BlackHawk cross beams to the fixtures and still it's a no go. I looked into this over the weekend and found several differences between the two benches. I could make the Blackhawk bench work with the Celette fixtures but it's gonna take some time. I would need to add a few cross beams, a front flat plate, and drill some new holes into the I-beams. That's one way. The other way would be to make all new cross beams to fit between the bench and fixtures. I'm not sure which way to go yet but either way it needs to be flat when done.

Does anyone know for sure if the Celette fixtures where a direct bolt-on to a BlackHawk bench? Or was there some in between fixtures that allowed that to happen? This info seams hard to find and verify.

I was always under the impression the worked also. I wonder if you need the Celette cross beams too. That may be the issue. Shoot a couple photos of the deck on your bench. Do you have any threaded holes?

I thought that I may need the Celette cross beams too but didn't want to spend more money if they wouldn't work. That's why I'm asking for someone that may have a set for measurements to confirm the fitment. If it is what I need that so be it but need to make sure that's the case. There's not much info out there that really clarifies that issue. The BlackHawk bench has no threaded holes but just drilled holes all the way down both sides of the I-beams. One big thing that I noticed is that the Celette bench has a large flat piece towards the front of their bench. The BlackHawk bench does not have this piece which is needed to mount the two front A-arm mounts and the Celette cross beam which holds the fixtures for the strut/cross member fixtures.
I'll post a few pics of what I mean soon.



I believe these are the cross beams that I may need. I still need to verify that.

See the countersunk holes. Those are the holes used to bolt the crossmembers to the bench. I can't find my metric tape. It is still packed from the move. But check to see if you have holes in your bench that measure 33 3/8 center to center. There are other holes fro mounting the cross members but these are commonly used.

Rick,

I got 33 3/4'' center to center on the side to side. Down each I-beam is holes 1/2'' in diameter that are 4'' apart. I don't think the Celette adapter plates will work either as the have the same 4'' x 4'' spacing as the BlackHawk units. So not sure what to use.

I believe that the Celette cross beams I posted a pic of is for the newer style Celette bases and not the Celette fixtures that I have. The fixtures that I have would mount right to the bench like the pic that Andy posted. I may have to just modify my bench to mount these fixtures.

I looked into the Celette cross beams and it seams that the ones I posted are for the MZ tower system. That does me no good as my fixtures are the older more robust style. The fixture that I have need to be mounted on the Bench and not the cross beams like the MZ system. I spoke to someone about the Celette cross braces and they will not work for me. Looks like a custom set of cross braces need to be made to mate the fixtures to the bench. I'm now wondering if there was a set of cross braces that worked for mounting the Celette fixtures to the BlackHawk. So, after going back n forth on how to resolve this I decided to make some custom cross braces to mount the fixtures. The other option was buying a 1/2 '' flat sheet of steel and have all custom holes cut to mate the two. For ease of install and cost I went with the custom braces. My brother and I started mounting the fixtures on Friday and lowered the car onto the bench. It looks like this will work out just fine. Now to spend the next few days measuring, cutting, aligning, drilling, and welding the new cross beams. Some pics of what it looks like now. I'll post pics of the final product when done.

[mate914]

Looks good so far... I'm a fan.
Matt

[Luke M]

Spent the day getting the rear half mounted and setup on the car. Looks pretty good.
I ran out of mounting hardware so off to the home depot or Ace on Sunday.
Got the cross beams for the front end figured out so just need to drill, weld, and bolt down. That's another days project but slowly getting there.

[JMDAZED]

Spent the day getting the rear half mounted and setup on the car. Looks pretty good.
I ran out of mounting hardware so off to the home depot or Ace on Sunday.
Got the cross beams for the front end figured out so just need to drill, weld, and bolt down. That's another days project but slowly getting there.

That looks like it works well!

[JMDAZED]

Are these fixtures available to rent from someone?

Clay

Scott Yeaman borrowed the green tipped fixtures from a shop in Oakland. Scott owns the bench and the rest of the pieces and they are in Palo Alto.

So you work at Yeamans shop? Does he still have his /6 with the 3.0? Always a fun car to drive. I have not seen Scott in years since he repaired my '91 964.

He still has his 6. It's all repainted and he needs to put it all together.

[JMDAZED]

Fenders are being welded on now.

[930cabman]

Dumb question: Lets suppose our rusted out 914 is secured to a frame bench and all the new parts/pieces/assemblies are welded in place with little regard to heat induced distortion. The chassis is removed from the frame bench, will any built up stresses from much welding create stress cracks or will the "straightened chassis" move from internal stresses?

thanks

[rick 918-S]

Dumb question: Lets suppose our rusted out 914 is secured to a frame bench and all the new parts/pieces/assemblies are welded in place with little regard to heat induced distortion. The chassis is removed from the frame bench, will any built up stresses from much welding create stress cracks or will the "straightened chassis" move from internal stresses?

thanks

No questions are dumb if you do not have experience with the subject. You would still take precautions while welding. You can build in distortion even while on fixtures. The less likely method is the pinch or spot welder. Same thing with mig spot welding. You would still use common sense. Specially on the upper body where you may not have the best bracing.

[Arno914]

Great work, Luke!

As far as I know, you need the "old" Celette to use the "old" fixtures. Blackhawk and Celette don´t mix.
I have the fixtures for the 914, together with the Celette "MUF 5" bench. The fixtures bolt directly on the bench.
Maybe the plan is of some interest?

Cheers, Arno



(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/thumbs.picr.de-24260-1610623645.1.jpg)

[Luke M]

Great work, Luke!

As far as I know, you need the "old" Celette to use the "old" fixtures. Blackhawk and Celette don´t mix.
I have the fixtures for the 914, together with the Celette "MUF 5" bench. The fixtures bolt directly on the bench.
Maybe the plan is of some interest?

Cheers, Arno



(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/thumbs.picr.de-24260-1610623645.1.jpg)

Hi Arno,

Thanks for the info. What I didn't know was if there were cross beams that mated the two together. I figured out a fix and currently working on that now. I have everything pretty squared away and ready to weld up. I'll be able to use these fixtures on my BlackHawk or a Celette bench.

[JMDAZED]

Haven't been on here for a couple weeks. We have seam sealed and caulked the front nose and jambing color so we can put front suspension back in.

[JMDAZED]

Looking like a 914 again.

[Cairo94507]

Outstanding! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)