Car porn not 914 but related, hey it's all in the family, Unbelievable pictures Options

[John]

What I can tell you is that the owner of the E-coat probably makes DAMN sure that whatever goes into the E-coat tank is CLEAN! The cost of a tank of E-Coat paint large enough to dip the whole tub is nothing to sneeze about. Contaminating said tank of paint would render it worthless.

Typically with an E-Coating process, there would be several stages of pretreatment in order to clean the parts. On a tank this large, it would more than likely be several stages of dip-pretreatment, followed by the e-coat tank, then a post rinse (to rinse off the non coated E-coat paint. Then the E-Coated parts would enter a curing oven that first brings the metal temp up to just below boiling point of water for 10-15 minutes to drive off moisture (dehydration zone), and then the parts would be typically be brought up to a metal temperature of approximately 400deg for around 45-60 minutes. Once cooled, the parts are done.

This process would have the advantage of completely cleaning acid from the joints and effectively coating all surfaces that the E-Coat process can coat (excludes closed box sections that create Faraday Cages).

The E-Coat needs to be top coated as it is not very UV stable. It would make for an excellent primer. The 914's were originally dip primer coated in a similar process back in the 70's. It was the precursor to what we know now as E-Coating. That is the thin grey primer typically found when one strips the tar/sound deadener from the floors of a 914.

We build industrial E-coat and Powder Coat systems where I work.

I think it looks great.

For my $0.02, our track car was chemically stripped back in 1984 when it got it's factory flares. To this day, the tub remains clean. The only paint problems we have had with it were self induced. We experienced no bubbling of paint. That typically comes from poor prepwork.

[Rob-O]

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Great paint info. I worked in the OEM paint industry for a long, long time, specifically BASF. BASF's aftermarket products were numerous, but most people associated them with Rinshed-Mason.

The e-coat tank is the paint so it doesn't get rinsed after application. It would go from the e-coat tank straight to an oven.

But I do disagree that the 914 was ever dipped by the factory. The inner longs, once separated, show no signs of paint in that area. That area also wouldn't qualify as a Farraday cage area. Besides, If the longs were already welded together, then that means the heater tubes were also already in place. Those heater tubes would not have survived the pre-treatment or any dipping/e-coating process.

Dipping a car now is definitely possible (and this subject comes up every year or so on the World). If it's to be a track car no problem (but im not sure why one would go to that expense for most track cars). But for a car that ever wants to have the capability of producing heat to the cabin again, the heater tubes will need to be pulled before dipping...and that means cutting the outer long to get the tube out.

[Mark Henry]

Dipping has been debated to death...you will never get a consensus (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[rick 918-S]

I had this Mercedes done over a year ago. It is sitting in E-coat now. Cost was around 3k. They cook the shell at 800 degrees. To remove the thick rubberized under body coating and the tar boards in the interior and u der the car before the dipping process. This turns the stuff into ash before the acid bath. There is no way I could come close to the end result of this process by hand with any amount of money.

[mepstein]

The paper heater tubes aren't important on a suby conversion right? It would also get rid of all the foam.

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[Rob-O]

Nope wouldn't need 'em. And might make it easier to run coolant hoses through the longs!

[boxsterfan]

there are always electric heaters hooked up to 55 amp alternators!! LOL

[Brett W]

The 914's were originally dip primer coated in a similar process back in the 70's. It was the precursor to what we know now as E-Coating. That is the thin grey primer typically found when one strips the tar/sound deadener from the floors of a 914.

None of the 914s I have cut apart had primer inside the rocker panels, frame rails, etc. Dipping would mean they couldn't put that weird paper muffler inside the rockers. if they had dipped them we wouldn't be dealing with so much rust.

For a track car with the budget, I would absolutely dip it or bake it in an oven to get all the crap out of the chassis. That is a the best way to clean up the seams and all the points where you need to weld.

[skier2.0]

I bet the new methods are much different than the old Dip&Strip places you took your wife's kitchen chairs to.

[Dominic]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a reputable acid dipping company in Nor Cal?

[DavidSweden]

Elbow grease

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1300.photobucket.com-17452-1451122916.1.jpg)

[John]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Great paint info. I worked in the OEM paint industry for a long, long time, specifically BASF. BASF's aftermarket products were numerous, but most people associated them with Rinshed-Mason.

The e-coat tank is the paint so it doesn't get rinsed after application. It would go from the e-coat tank straight to an oven.

But I do disagree that the 914 was ever dipped by the factory. The inner longs, once separated, show no signs of paint in that area. That area also wouldn't qualify as a Farraday cage area. Besides, If the longs were already welded together, then that means the heater tubes were also already in place. Those heater tubes would not have survived the pre-treatment or any dipping/e-coating process.

Dipping a car now is definitely possible (and this subject comes up every year or so on the World). If it's to be a track car no problem (but im not sure why one would go to that expense for most track cars). But for a car that ever wants to have the capability of producing heat to the cabin again, the heater tubes will need to be pulled before dipping...and that means cutting the outer long to get the tube out.

Begging your pardon, but:

Every E-Coat system that I have seen/worked on has a post rinse directly after the paint tank to rinse any residual paint off the surface of the painted part. If that step is skipped, the coating is not nearly uniform enough. The Electrocoating process basically plates the paint to the metal surface. The post rinse is to get rid of any paint that was not electro-deposited onto the substrate.



The electro-deposition paint process is basically a line of sight between the anodes and the part being painted. While the inner portions of some tubes may get coated, it will not coat too far into the faraday cage.

Similar effects occur in other forms of electro-deposition painting processes.

I believe that if a process was autoferretic, no voltage passes through the paint and the inside of tubing can be painted, but without voltage, it is not E-Coat.


We have done automotive lines, truck lines, railroad car lines, Agricultural equipment lines, etc, etc.....

(I too don't have an answer concerning the paper heater tubes, but that is what I have read and recall from way, way back.)

[John]

The 914's were originally dip primer coated in a similar process back in the 70's. It was the precursor to what we know now as E-Coating. That is the thin grey primer typically found when one strips the tar/sound deadener from the floors of a 914.

None of the 914s I have cut apart had primer inside the rocker panels, frame rails, etc. Dipping would mean they couldn't put that weird paper muffler inside the rockers. if they had dipped them we wouldn't be dealing with so much rust.

For a track car with the budget, I would absolutely dip it or bake it in an oven to get all the crap out of the chassis. That is a the best way to clean up the seams and all the points where you need to weld.

Section views have been posted before (here and other places) that show evidence of paint inside semi-closed cavities. Here are a few examples. The grey is indeed paint. The red is indeed rust.





It was not thick paint, but it was some sort of paint, and it has been found inside cavities that would not be sprayable.

[mepstein]

The 914's were originally dip primer coated in a similar process back in the 70's. It was the precursor to what we know now as E-Coating. That is the thin grey primer typically found when one strips the tar/sound deadener from the floors of a 914.

None of the 914s I have cut apart had primer inside the rocker panels, frame rails, etc. Dipping would mean they couldn't put that weird paper muffler inside the rockers. if they had dipped them we wouldn't be dealing with so much rust.

For a track car with the budget, I would absolutely dip it or bake it in an oven to get all the crap out of the chassis. That is a the best way to clean up the seams and all the points where you need to weld.

Section views have been posted before (here and other places) that show evidence of paint inside semi-closed cavities. Here are a few examples. The grey is indeed paint. The red is indeed rust.





It was not thick paint, but it was some sort of paint, and it has been found inside cavities that would not be sprayable.

Maybe the original surface treatment of the metal before it was welded?

[McMark]

All the cars were indeed primer dipped. No doubt about it. The longs may have been closed up after the dipping, but they were all dipped.

[IronHillRestorations]

I seem to remember reading in a Porsche sales brochure or pamphlet "phosphate coated"

[JeffBowlsby]

See these two:

[Rob-O]

See these two:

Jeff,

Is that for all models? I know the -6 was assembled by Porsche, and the -4 was assembled by Karmann. I thought Karmann painted them all though. How about the 911? I thought that was all Porsche. If so those processes between the two factories could've been wildly different. Hard to know what context the above information came from without some other identifying information.

Do we know if 911's were dipped?

With all the knowledge we have, I'm actually surprised we don't know or have contacts of people who worked in the factories back in the day.