Oil cooler..........round two, AKA fun with foam! |
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Oil cooler..........round two, AKA fun with foam! |
jim_hoyland |
Feb 18 2006, 10:10 PM
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#41
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Get that VIN ? Group: Members Posts: 9,557 Joined: 1-May 03 From: Sunset Beach, CA Member No.: 643 Region Association: Southern California |
How many layers of glass did you use ? Any special weight or type ? Keep the pics coming, this is really interesting.
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jonwatts |
Feb 19 2006, 01:29 AM
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#42
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no rules, just wrong Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,321 Joined: 13-January 03 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 141 |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) very cool. Hey Rich, I thought you sold your /6 and signed off a few months ago? |
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ArtechnikA |
Feb 19 2006, 08:26 AM
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#43
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
the 3,6 does flow a lot of oil. perhaps i'm just too conservative. if Jim Patrick is going to personally stand behind his recommendation, go with the experience. but - IMO - the thermostat should be close to the engine. you're routing a lot of thick, cold oil all the way to the front of the car so it can be routed right back again. since heat is radiated from the lines, it could even take longer to reach operating temperature. (enough longer to make any practical difference? maybe not. i'll be glad to admit i don't know. where does Porsche mount the thermostat in the 3,6 911's ?) it's your car, do what you want and think best. the reality is that Porsche engines are usually pretty robust and lots of approaches that appear marginal work well enough. |
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ArtechnikA |
Feb 19 2006, 08:46 AM
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#44
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) i did sell the car and it still hurts to think about it. i unsubscribed from just about every topic i was following. i still get new topic notifications but i actually read very, very few new threads - most of those i do look at have /6 content -- i still have the 911 and it will be getting a lot of attention this year - including a new engine and front oil cooler. with the new job, its 3-hr (total) commute, more limited email/internet access, and increased responsibilities, i just can't be nearly as active as i was. so if you're asking me why i don't stay away, i can arange it... |
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J P Stein |
Feb 19 2006, 09:04 AM
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#45
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Rich:
Generally, you and I are are in agreement about most stuff. I wouldn't mount a thremo up front unless my oil tank was up there (maybe, I'd have to think on it for a bit) and I would use a AN16 line minimum with a 3.6L.....but I've given up preaching to guys that have already made their choices. If pressed, I'll say "lemmeno how that works out". As for the "to be or not to be" (in the 914club sense), face it you need the fix....unlike me, I have nuthin' better to do. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) |
drew365 |
Feb 19 2006, 09:37 AM
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#46
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These are the good old days! Group: Members Posts: 2,004 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Sunny So. Cal. Member No.: 37 |
Dave; do you think adding a scoop over the cowl vent with the opening facing the windshield, would create enough low pressure to vent out of the trunk? My cooler currently dumps the air under the car and I want to change that without cutting up my hood if possible. |
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Dave_Darling |
Feb 19 2006, 10:33 AM
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#47
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,063 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
Only if you cut off your windshield... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) The WS is what creates the high-pressure area, so it seems unlikely that just making a deflector on the front of the opening would do much. It would be interesting to find out for certain, though! If you can find a pressure-testing rig you might be able to find out. If you do, please let us know. --DD |
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East coaster |
Feb 19 2006, 11:54 AM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,791 Joined: 28-March 03 From: Millville, NJ Member No.: 487 Region Association: None |
As far as thermostat placement, there seems to be 2 schools of thought.
One says place the thermo near the engine so as to prevent having to pump cold oil to the front and back needlessly. Second says place the thermo near the cooler to protect the cooler from the pressures created by all that cold oil in the lines (if thermo was at rear). I read about a bazillion threads on this and it seems there's no real answer. I definitely could not find any answer backed up with data. I've seen more installs with the thermo up front than in the rear and I've not heard any horror stories yet. I think a coin toss (heads up front, tails in rear) is as scientific an approach as I've seen so far. JP - As far as the -12 vs -16 lines thingy. I've not made up my mind yet. I could easily change the plan at this point, I'm just looking for information on why? If -16 is necessary I would certainly go that route, but no one has backed up that claim with any info? I'm all ears and open to any suggestions. |
Eric_Shea |
Feb 19 2006, 01:02 PM
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#49
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Begin Parrot: Squawwwwk
Porsche 911 Performance Handbook, Second Edition, Author - Bruce Anderson, Page 189, End of Second Paragraph: The connecting hoses for this application should be -12 or larger to prevent restricing the oil flow to and from the cooler back to the tank. (discussing the addition of a large radiator type cooler for track applications) Off Parrot: Squawwwwk He knows more than me. |
Aaron Cox |
Feb 19 2006, 01:05 PM
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#50
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
its common practice to run -16 and -20 on a 3.6...... will -12 hurt? dunno, prolly not |
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Eric_Shea |
Feb 19 2006, 01:10 PM
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#51
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
He starts that paragraph with:
'With any of the larger displacement, high-power output, normally aspirated engines or turbocharged engines...' |
race914 |
Feb 19 2006, 01:12 PM
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#52
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73 914-4 Group: Members Posts: 1,006 Joined: 31-October 05 From: Nipomo, California (Central Coast) Member No.: 5,027 Region Association: Central California |
Hey Eric, You may have earned a new avatar! Greg Attached thumbnail(s) |
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Eric_Shea |
Feb 19 2006, 01:12 PM
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#53
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Now... if I was running the 'tank' up front, that would be a different story.
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Eric_Shea |
Feb 19 2006, 01:13 PM
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#54
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I was looking for a birdie avatar... we need one.
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Aaron Cox |
Feb 19 2006, 01:14 PM
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#55
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
i thought parrots squawked and chickens bawked?
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Trekkor |
Feb 19 2006, 01:16 PM
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#56
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I believe the common misunderstanding is that the line coming from the front cooler is going right back into the motor like on a FOUR. Under pressure.
Well it doesn't. It fills the oil tank. This is not a starvation or oil pressure drop issue. The -16 oil line from the oil tank to the motor is what is needed. Remember, the oil level is checked with the motor warm and running. That's oil in the lines, motor and 8-12+ qts, depending on what tank you are using. KT |
Eric_Shea |
Feb 19 2006, 01:17 PM
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#57
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Thanks for that... changed (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) And what's this 'common practice' crap. Stop stroking your roll and go work on your car. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Trek brings it back on topic! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) |
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db9146 |
Feb 19 2006, 01:39 PM
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#58
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 953 Joined: 21-December 04 From: Atlanta, GA Member No.: 3,315 Region Association: None |
East Coaster, I like it...a lot. Great job. Keep the pics coming.
Thanks for sharing. |
J P Stein |
Feb 19 2006, 07:07 PM
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#59
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Anderson says quite a lot.
He says the 964/993 oil pump moves 67 liters per minute on the pressure side & 1.8 times that much on the scavenge side. I can't remember the exact specifics on the 76-88 pump but I think it was in the mid 50s per minute on the pressure side. He also talks about restrictions in the Aux cooler side causing the oil pump fail. Too small lines & restrictive oil coolers, yada. The scavenge side is unregulated...pressure wise. Restrictions or cold oil cause the pump to work harder.....it is almost a positive displacement pump, me thinks. As restrictions rise, it just keeps pumping its 67 liters by raising the pressure. When that gets beyond its capabilities, it cavatates. The voids caused by the cavatation can allow the gears to become exposed to each other...not to mention the drive shaft shocks. Bad shit. If you have an aux thermostat with a pressure relief valve, the oil can by pass the cooler & be pushed thru the filter (with it's own pressure relief valve) into the tank.....no harm , no foul. If you don't have either of these safety features (cheep filter & thermo)in your scavenge loop, that's your problem, not mine. I'm done with this subject....move along, nothing to see here folks. |
East coaster |
Feb 19 2006, 08:23 PM
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#60
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,791 Joined: 28-March 03 From: Millville, NJ Member No.: 487 Region Association: None |
Ok..........more fumes, more itchy scratchy, but a little more progress!
Here's the front inlet plenum after lay up and evacuation of the plug foam: I shaped it to fill the void between the front of the cooler and three intake holes. The three oval extensions actually fit into the holes on the front of the car. Attached image(s) |
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