 Early folding hand-brake lever..., How does this work??? |
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| Rick_Eberle |
 Jul 27 2006, 06:06 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: 14-January 04 From: Geelong, Australia Member No.: 1,558  |
OK, my hand brake has always worked by friction, and the ratchet has only ever engaged once (on the freeway, stuck in traffic, embarassing). I need to get it working right to pass the Roadworthy inspection when I finally register the 914.
So, how does the early lever work to engage the ratchet? Should there be a spring in there? (other than the sping on the push rod) Has anyone got a photo of the parts? PET doesn't really show it too clearly. Thanks. |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Jul 27 2006, 06:18 PM
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#2
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
The pushbutton has a rod with a flat curved piece of steel at the bottom inside the handle, and the rod moves the cam which engages the fixed teeth on the pivot. That steel rod is a weak point, and is NOT the same as the one for the late HB lever. Hand brake adjustment also affects the operation of the handle. if it's wrong, the button may not release the teeth, or the lever on the caliper may not fully release. You need to lube the various moving parts with a thin oil, adjust the cables so they operate the 2 calipers in unison, and so the brake is locked at about 6-8 clicks. The Cap'n
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| tat2dphreak |
Jul 27 2006, 06:38 PM
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#3
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
... OR just get a late handle and convert...
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| lapuwali |
Jul 27 2006, 06:50 PM
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#4
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743 |
Cap'n, can you point out which part you're referring to on PET? I've taken my folding-handle e-brake completely apart, looked carefully at the PET diagrams, and even asked this very question on this board a week or so ago.
Right now, the "pawl" only engages the "ratchet" on my e-brake if I reach down there and engage it by hand while I'm pulling up on the lever. I have to be missing some part, but I can't find it or any reference to it. I'm considering trying to fit some small spring (probably a hairpin spring) to get the pawl to engage. |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Jul 27 2006, 07:07 PM
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#5
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
7-10, item 3. I wouldn't waste more than about 1 second trying to kluge a repair, considering the part used to be under 10 bucks. If it's available, buy one. The Cap'n
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| JPB |
Jul 27 2006, 07:08 PM
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#6
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The Crimson Rocket smiles in your general direction. Group: Members Posts: 2,927 Joined: 12-November 05 From: Tapmahamock, Va. Member No.: 5,107 |
MIne is a 71 and just has the push rod straight to the ratchet. The other toothed part is bolted to the body and dosen't move. If you push the button and the handel just bends on the way back down then you need the rubber boot which goes over the whole deal. This keeps the handel straight and allows you to return the handel back to the bottom. I destroyed my boot and decided to take the easy approach by tack welding the two halves of the handel together since I might put a leather handel cover later. Now the handel does not bend, works fine and dosen't have any spring in it at all.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Good luck! |
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| Rick_Eberle |
Jul 27 2006, 07:19 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: 14-January 04 From: Geelong, Australia Member No.: 1,558 |
So the push rod should move the ratchet in AND out?
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| JPB |
Jul 27 2006, 07:30 PM
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#8
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The Crimson Rocket smiles in your general direction. Group: Members Posts: 2,927 Joined: 12-November 05 From: Tapmahamock, Va. Member No.: 5,107 |
Yesser, all it does is disengage the ratchet. Its not realy high tech but works. If it does not cooperate, then you can bend it to do its duty if it has had to many miles as you might see a wear spot on the end I think on the inside of the bend. To install it correctly, you have to hold the whole deal in your hand before installing it, slip the rod and the ratchet together so the ratchet locks on the gears. If you push the button and it releases, then it is assembled correctly. Then you carefully slip the handel on the pin/bushing, bolt on the car and voila! Now you have the joy of intalling the CABLES!!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Gluck! |
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| lapuwali |
Jul 27 2006, 07:49 PM
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#9
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743 |
Well, I'm definitely not missing the push rod (part 914.424.055.00). I can't see how that does the job, though, unless mine has been hopelessly mangled.
Here's a crude picture:  Press the button and the black bit (the pushrod) moves to the right. It's sprung to keep it to the left. The hooked end presses against the top of the pawl (the blue thing), which causes it to pivot (red ball), and disengage from the ratchet. That part works on mine. When the button is released, the pushrod just moves to the left. The pawl is left to swing in the breeze. Now, if the pushrod is supposed to also supposed to help engage the pawl against the ratchet, then it would only be able to do so if the hooked part when over the top of the pawl, so when the spring moved the pushrod back to the left, it would pull the top of the pawl with it, which would engage it against the ratchet. However, the hooked part won't go over the pawl on my setup, as the pushrod is way too short. It also wouldn't fold if this were the case, as the top of the pawl is "underneath" the top of the non-folding part of the e-brake handle, and there's not enough clearance for the hook to go over the pawl. This has been puzzling me for 2-3 weeks now. I'm not saying you're wrong, Cap'n, I'm saying I don't understand how you can be right. The drawing in PET is even more crude than my picture, so I can't tell if my part looks like the right thing or not. The two little posts on the pushrod are stopped by a riveted pin on the folding part of the lever that keeps the pushrod from moving too far in either direction, so it doesn't look like this is some later kludge. |
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| Rick_Eberle |
Jul 27 2006, 08:52 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: 14-January 04 From: Geelong, Australia Member No.: 1,558 |
 OK, when the button is pressed, the pushrod (yellow) pivots the ratchet (blue) in the direction of the green arrow. When the button is released, what pushes the ratchet back in the direction of the red arrow to engage the quadrant (not shown)? Mine is just loose to move. Am I missing a spring somewhere? |
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| lapuwali |
Jul 27 2006, 09:50 PM
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#11
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743 |
Rick, that's exactly how mine is. I'm completely at a loss as to how the pushrod can force the pawl to engage the ratchet.
btw, is the riveted pin that limits the travel of the pushrod all bent on your lever? |
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| McMark |
Jul 27 2006, 10:58 PM
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#12
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Perhaps the pawl is supposed to be free enough to engage by gravity? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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| lapuwali |
Jul 27 2006, 11:33 PM
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#13
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743 |
Mine flops around very loosely. Gravity doesn't appear to be adequate.
How does the fixed handle e-brake work? I've never seen one. |
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| banksyinoz |
Jul 28 2006, 02:59 AM
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#14
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finally getting back into it Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 17-June 05 From: queensland, aus Member No.: 4,293 Region Association: Australia and New Zealand |
hi rick glenn here have you ever taken notice of the handbrake in a HQ holden i think it works the same way
the rod is only used to dis-engage the ratchet it only pushes on the pivot point the tension to hold the ratchet and pivot comes from the brakes themselves, this is why the rod is able to rest in its normal place, then when you dis-engage you push the button and pull up the lever untill it meets the tensin (do not pull it off the floor !!! as this bends the rod) a couple of mm will release the pivot from the ratchet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) good luck |
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| michel richard |
Jul 28 2006, 05:57 AM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,291 Joined: 22-July 03 From: Longueuil, Québec Member No.: 936 |
Perhaps a little OT, so please forgive me.
I'm rebuilding a /6 and I only have a late brake handle. Does anybody have a spare early one, in decent condition, they would part with ? Michel Richard |
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| lapuwali |
Jul 28 2006, 09:19 AM
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#16
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743 |
QUOTE(banksyinoz @ Jul 28 2006, 01:59 AM)  hi rick glenn here have you ever taken notice of the handbrake in a HQ holden i think it works the same way the rod is only used to dis-engage the ratchet it only pushes on the pivot point the tension to hold the ratchet and pivot comes from the brakes themselves, this is why the rod is able to rest in its normal place, then when you dis-engage you push the button and pull up the lever untill it meets the tensin (do not pull it off the floor !!! as this bends the rod) a couple of mm will release the pivot from the ratchet This tension holds the pawl against the ratchet once it's engaged, but it doesn't hold it there while the leverl is being pulled up. Something has to force the pawl against the ratchet if you're going to get the click, click, click on the way up. Right now, if I pull up on the lever, I get no clicking, and if I release the lever, it just flops down. The pawl never touches the ratchet. If I pull up on the lever, then push the pawl against the ratchet with a finger, it stays there. |
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| banksyinoz |
Jul 28 2006, 04:14 PM
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#17
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finally getting back into it Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 17-June 05 From: queensland, aus Member No.: 4,293 Region Association: Australia and New Zealand |
i could not find any thing in my books that was of interest on this matter however your theory of the spring may assist in solving the problem
unless someone wants to take some pics, i only have the later device (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Rick_Eberle |
Jul 28 2006, 04:51 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: 14-January 04 From: Geelong, Australia Member No.: 1,558 |
QUOTE(lapuwali @ Jul 29 2006, 01:19 AM) This tension holds the pawl against the ratchet once it's engaged, but it doesn't hold it there while the leverl is being pulled up. Something has to force the pawl against the ratchet if you're going to get the click, click, click on the way up. Right now, if I pull up on the lever, I get no clicking, and if I release the lever, it just flops down. The pawl never touches the ratchet. If I pull up on the lever, then push the pawl against the ratchet with a finger, it stays there. Yeah, what he said! Hey Glenn, I don't know my HQ's too well, but I'll try to find one to look at. |
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| bondo |
Jul 29 2006, 07:32 PM
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#19
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Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
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| Rick_Eberle |
Jul 29 2006, 07:56 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: 14-January 04 From: Geelong, Australia Member No.: 1,558 |
QUOTE(bondo @ Jul 30 2006, 11:32 AM) That's IT!!! Thank you! |
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