1973 2.0L Rustoration, Restoration turned OT garage build Options

[bbrock]

Your sanity was never in question. It's 5am and you are posting on this forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) Then again, it is 4am here and I'm reading... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Your project(s) escalated quickly from insisting on dished 94mm pistons for your 4. Looking good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Your sanity was never in question. It's 5am and you are posting on this forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) Then again, it is 4am here and I'm reading... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Your project(s) escalated quickly from insisting on dished 94mm pistons for your 4. Looking good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

@Bbrock

Pain from surgery not allowing me to sleep. What's your excuse? Burning the 4am oil and getting an early start on the 914 today I hope. I hope you can get your paint work done before snow flies and/or that you can move indoors with a temp paint booth arrangement.

Yeah. I was just going to post on that topic of the NOS parts.

@914_7T3

Jeffrey sure went out of his way and to extraordinary measures to hook me up on those 94mm KS NOS pistons, cylinders and NOS cam.

I had a long phone conversation with him about what is the right thing to do. I wanted to make sure that he is 100% on-board with the plan before I do anything.

So I think what is going to happen is:

1) I'll reassemble GA000099 with existing 94mm low dish P&C's which are in good shape and came out of this engine. I'll likely, use the original un-cracked Porsche 2.0L heads (after rebuilding those). Regrind the slightly worn stock cam that came out of this engine and put on stock FI. That gets me a stock NOS 2.0L for use until the six conversion can happen. This keeps an interesting low serial number GA engine NOS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) I'll drive this until I can fund the 2.4L engine rebuild and conversion.

2) I'll rebuild GA004310 with the 2.0L AAP heads prepped by HAM, and 96 mm P&C's. I think it will be easier to unload a 2056 with HAM heads as a cost offset for this 2.4L 911 engine. The catch will be if I can actually make any money for my rebuild time and effort. Doubt it. I at least need to recoup the costs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) I've thought of selling off the new unused HAM heads, the case, 2.0L tin, crank, etc. as parts but I suspect there will eventually be someone that needs a properly rebuilt 2.0L that doesn't have the means or time to DIY. Might be a long wait though vs. just parting out. Plus, selling parts piecemeal is a pain for me with all the postings and subsequent shipping time, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Or, list as a lot price for engine core parts? Undecided.

3) The KS 94mm pistons, cylinders and cam stay NOS and unused. It would be a shame to put into an engine just to drive it a year and then sell to someone that doesn't fully appreciate a stock 2.0L. Parts get put on the shelf for the next guy that wants to build up a 2.0L engine with 94mm NOS parts and really values that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Open to better options but this is what Jeffrey and I came up with.

[914_7T3]

Your sanity was never in question. It's 5am and you are posting on this forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) Then again, it is 4am here and I'm reading... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Your project(s) escalated quickly from insisting on dished 94mm pistons for your 4. Looking good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

"Your project(s) escalated quickly........................................."

and it's more like your insanity was never in question


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[euro911]

Now for the bad news. One cylinder is cracked at the boss for the valve guide. Likely a result of prior poor workmanship. I can see evidence of the valve guide having been replaced previously. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'm undecided on next steps for this head. I hate to toss a 2.0L head. May weld it but that will be down the road since it will involve lots of work to weld it and then to re-machine the valve guide boss properly. I will probably bead blast it just to see if there are other cracks in the combustion chamber to help seal the deal.



Ah . . . the joy of restoring 40+ year old cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

NEVER, EVER bead blast anything that passes air, fuel or oil in your motors ... especially anything that has little nooks & crannies where the beads can get stuck. It only takes a few of those little marbles to destroy a motor in short order. Soda blast them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Even when rinsing the parts in an ultrasound tank, you may not dislodge all the beads. They'll eventually come loose while you're driving 90 mph on the turnpike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

That's why I'm building a new soda blasting cabinet ... I have numerous parts including carburetors that I need to clean up.

[Superhawk996]

Now for the bad news. One cylinder is cracked at the boss for the valve guide. Likely a result of prior poor workmanship. I can see evidence of the valve guide having been replaced previously. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I'm undecided on next steps for this head. I hate to toss a 2.0L head. May weld it but that will be down the road since it will involve lots of work to weld it and then to re-machine the valve guide boss properly. I will probably bead blast it just to see if there are other cracks in the combustion chamber to help seal the deal.



Ah . . . the joy of restoring 40+ year old cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

NEVER, EVER bead blast anything that passes air, fuel or oil in your motors ... especially anything that has little nooks & crannies where the beads can get stuck. It only takes a few of those little marbles to destroy a motor in short order. Soda blast them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Even when rinsing the parts in an ultrasound tank, you may not dislodge all the beads. They'll eventually come loose while you're driving 90 mph on the turnpike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

That's why I'm building a new soda blasting cabinet ... I have numerous parts including carburetors that I need to clean up.

In the case of heads, All valves, guides, etc. come out. No where for the bead to get stuck. Agree completely if the heads were not to be fully disassembled.

Whenever I've done a case, it is exterior only and all oil galleys get sealed off and ultimately galley plugs will get pulled anyway to ensure no other 40 year old debris resides within the galley.

Agree soda is a better choice but let's be honest, walnut shells and bead have been a mainstay for years before anyone came up with soda blasting. Even better yet is Dry Ice blasting which leaves absolutely no residue. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an affordable dry ice blaster though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

It all comes down to diligence in getting things totally clean inside and out before assembly. That is true for any engine rebuild be it a lawn mower or a high end race engine. If I can't eat off of it, it isn't clean enough.

[Superhawk996]

and it's more like your insanity was never in question


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Have to agree with you on that. Had I been sane, I would have started with a beautiful rust free CA car. I'd be driving by now.

[euro911]

Even some folks who have rust-free cars still don't have them on the road after more than 10 years.

Ask me how I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Superhawk996]

OK - Feeling better and getting back at it.

1st order of business was to get the right side cylinder bank heads off to see what happened. The curiosity was killing me.



When the cylinder heads finally came off the problem is obvious. Mr Piston met Mr Valve.



In addition cylinders 4,5, and 6 are trashed. Multiple causes here. Storage and corrosion are one issue but there is evidence in cylinder #4 that the cylinder is pretty torn up probably from deformation and side load of the piston when it met the valve.

Hopefully rods are OK but we'll figure that out later when I finally split the case.

On the head side, at least all the valves are intact but they are surely bent based on the leakdown test and the air escaping via the exhaust valves. Not a big deal, valves would be replaced anyway. Will have to wait to later to get a good look at the valve guides and particularly the casting around the valve guide.



Well, at least now I know what happened. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Doesn't appear to be catastrophic at this point but I certainly will need to do so measuring on the granite surface plate to see if the rods are bent.

[Superhawk996]

Now here's the real mystery.

I'm a bit embarrassed to post the carnage to the CIS injector cups but I'm here to share the good, the bad, the ugly so you can learn from my own impatience with trying to get a cup out. This was literally a 1/2 model year solution by Porsche for 1973.5. For 74' the CIS injectors were moved up into the intake runners and have a proper insert in the runner to both insulate it from heat, and to seal it. The 74' CIS injector insert is serviceable. Imagine that. 1973.5 maybe not so much.

In the process of pulling the CIS injectors the rubber seals were so hard, I couldn't get the injectors out even when I heated them gently to "operating temperature" to try to soften the rubber. I'm sort of wondering what other trick might have been tried to soften the seals enough to allow the CIS injector to pass out without blowing out the thin wall cup perimeter. After the fact, I thought of maybe a solvent to soften the rubber. Too late!

As the CIS injectors came out, they trashed a couple of the CIS injector cups. Not really a concern since I'll end up either running carbs or more likely ITB's and modern FI via MegaSquirt. These cups need to go and get the holes tapped for plugs if they are not already tapped.

Before I bought the engine I did some research and thought the cups were threaded into the early 73' MFI threads. It is looking like that is not the case. Information on how to remove them is pretty much non existent. I did find one instance where someone converted to carbs and just make "plugs" to fit into the seals and cups were the CIS injectors were previously. That would work, but I'm to OCD for that. The cups need to go bye bye.

A post over on the bird came up with one fellow that indicates the CIS cups are press or shrink fit. They don't appar to be designed to be serviceable. I couldn't find them in the PET parts guide. Strangely, the crude ISO view seemed to show one on the head assembly but no separate part available. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Not a good sign that they were ever intended to be serviceable.

Worst case I'll machine them out in the mill. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Given that I now have three engines in pieces, keeping the balls in the air is getting tricky.

All the tin from the two 2.0L engines (GA004310 & GA000099) was dropped today for sandblasting and powder coat. One set will be done in black, one in red for my project.



There are three fan shrouds because back when I needed flaps, I purchased a complete shroud off e-bay just to get the flaps.

All fan shrouds will be done in silver. Don't worry, I'll clean off the powder coating at the attachment points to make sure I have a good ground between the shroud and the case.

The extra shroud will go up on classifieds forum in a couple weeks when it's complete.

[bbrock]

I've never touched a real Porsche engine so am learning here. Hard to believe those injector cups came from German engineers. What was the purpose of mounting them in the heads vs intake runners? Better spray pattern? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[mepstein]

I've never touched a real Porsche engine so am learning here. Hard to believe those injector cups came from German engineers. What was the purpose of mounting them in the heads vs intake runners? Better spray pattern? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Porsche made so many changes on their engines from year to year. Some were good, some not so good. We have about a thousand heads on the shelf and it's often hard to match up 6 since they made so many changes and had different port sizes and injectors for carbs, MFI, CIS, T,E S, Turbo, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, 3.0, 3.3, etc.

[Superhawk996]

After much sweating and maybe a little swearing here is the weekend scoreboard.

Headstuds: 23 of 24 removed without lifting out the magnesium threads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) There is always that one that refuses to go along with rest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

P&C's
Yup, the 1,2,3 bank pistons also kissed the heads. I guess that makes a perfect score of all 6. At least we have consistency. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

Crankshaft:
Visually looks good. only the lightest of scoring that can't be felt with a fingernail. Standard bearings in place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)



Case:
With respect to the previously mentioned casting gate, the shrink is over the main webs, in a very thick section, and is indeed casting shrinkage. No chance of perforation of the case.

Initial visual upon 1st splitting the case was great.

But, then I got to bearing #7. Not good. Something went very bad. Either casting porosity, corrosion, or major fretting. I don't see any fretting on the other bearing web's. Likewise this is the only place inside the case that looks like this. I'm going to rule out corrosion as I can't see how it would be localized to just one web. That leaves casting porosity as the likely suspect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)





I had planned on this being a core engine and needing machine work. Sent pictures to Ollie's today and they think all can be made well in exchange for $$. Likely to be on the order of $2600 to include potential welding, machining, line bore, adding case savers, oil bypass modification, extraction and repair of a couple transmission studs, etc. Life if good if you're Ollie! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) 10-12 week lead time to even get to it. Good thing I have at least a year! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Overall not a bad weekend! Beats being at work but I had to go back today to pay for this endeavor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[mepstein]

Just saying...


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Superhawk996]

@Mepstein

You had me tempted but I'm not a chase the HP kind of guy. I will actually have more fun driving this car as a 2.0L Type 4 for a year or so and then go to the 2.4L when parts and funds permit.

I personally think 2.4L is the sweet spot for a six and the 2.0L for the type 4. I also wanted to keep a period correct engine. 1973.5 2.4L could have just as easily been installed by Porsche had they not been afraid the 914 would outperform their beloved 911. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

7R case not highly stressed. 140-160 HP is just right for the type 901 trans to avoid having to baby it, or update to a 915.

Keeps a nice balance of HP vs. handling with an emphasis on handling.

[Superhawk996]

I've never touched a real Porsche engine so am learning here. Hard to believe those injector cups came from German engineers. What was the purpose of mounting them in the heads vs intake runners? Better spray pattern? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

@bbrock

I think it was part of the learning and evolution. Evolution from Carbs to MFI was great for HP but costly. CIS was next logical step to bring down cost without hurting HP and CIS probably had an emissions advantage in an era where emissions controls was ramping up.

MFI was always in the heads. I think when they did the 1973.5 CIS they didn't have time to get the 74' intake runners tooled up for production so they put the CIS injectors in the heads for expediency. This caused issues with vapor lock and carbon deposits on the CIS injectors similar to what happens on the back side of an intake valve.

Moving the injectors to the intake runners yields better atomization, less carbon, and less vapor lock potential.

Given that I could see the need to quickly migrate from MFI to CIS I assumed they would just make an injector cup / adapter that threaded into the MFI ports. Silly me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

What did amaze me though was just how thin the aluminum cup is. It literally cracked when the rubber injector seal wouldn't yield from rubber hardening. another 0.020" of wall thickness would make these very robust. No idea why they made them so thin.

We all like to think Porsche was pretty smart but given the issues I've seen now with the GA000099 casting (early 73') and this 1973.5 911 case, I think quality control was . . . ahem . . . lacking in that era. Too much dope smoking is what I'm going to pin it on! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I don't have much memory of 1973 other than moving from Massachusetts to Michigan. I was only 6. However I vividly recall 1975-1976 and there was plenty of dope smokin' going on around me with friends older brothers and what not!

[sixnotfour]

Wow, that sucks.weird porosity down in oil hole too ?? Here is my oh-shit, numbers matching -6 case , spun main bearing..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Wow, that sucks.weird porosity down in oil hole too ?? Here is my oh-shit, numbers matching -6 case , spun main bearing..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yeah porosity appears to be in the oil hole too. Someone not paying attention in the foundry and/or Porsche was willing to accept it. Hard to tell which was the case.

The good news for both of us it can be fixed with Welding, machining and line bore. Like mine the bad news is the cost to do so.

There is very little that can’t be fixed. The issue is always cost and timing.

Seems like it would be worth the cost to keep matching numbers on a -6.

[mepstein]

We are seeing this often on 2.7’s

[Superhawk996]

We are seeing this often on 2.7’s

Apparently 1974 casting process was getting getting better with time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Honestly there will always be some porosity in castings. In my case it seems a bit excessive but honestly it isn’t a show stopper at 140hp which isn’t going to flex or fret the case as much as a 2.8L RSR !

I’m just OCD and want it to be the best I can manage within my budget.