the sawtooth build thread Options

[sawtooth]

When you say motor mount arms...are you talking about the engine cradle thing they sale?

Which Kennedy set-up did you go for?

-Britain

It's this mount from Small Car Performance, but they sold me just the 2 arms that bolt up to the block, not the cross piece you see in the pic. I bolted these up to the block, and welded a piece of 2" angle at the front for the cross brace. This brace then sits on top and bolted to the stock 914 engine mount bar. I stole this idea from Amensen. But, I didn't cut lower notches like he did. I let the bar sit on top which gives enough clearance below that I don't have to modify the oil pan which is a big plus for me. Only down side to the engine sitting up that high is that there isn't enough room for the intake hose between the trunk. I'm planning on A/C at some point so I'm not flipping the intake manifold 180 like some do. I'll end up modifying the trunk slightly to make room for an intake hose.

I just have the standard kennedy adapter with the stock 200mm pressure plate size. I plan on using that for a while and then converting to a suby trans later.

[Hontec]

Love the Subaru conversion, doing it myself, only I'm also using the subie transmission.

Keep up the good work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sawtooth]

Love the Subaru conversion, doing it myself, only I'm also using the subie transmission.

Keep up the good work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cool, you going to start a build thread? What axle and shifter solution are you going with? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[Hontec]

Love the Subaru conversion, doing it myself, only I'm also using the subie transmission.

Keep up the good work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cool, you going to start a build thread? What axle and shifter solution are you going with? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

I'm trying to but the site keeps giving me an error when I try to upload the pics....

Axles are going to be custom since I'm going to put in a Sequential transmission, hence the shifter will be too

[charliew]

Sequential tranny as in the new suby sequential tranny? I read up on it and it's doesn't support much hp or torque. I really want to do a sequential tranny but haven't come up with a cost effective solution yet. I considered try to design a shifter that would work with the suby tranny but it is not to the must have stage yet. One missed downshift with a suby at high rpm will make the sequential tranny much more important though. My son hotrods a 425 hp sti and missed 5th in the 1/4 mile and putting it in third at 7500 in 4th is tough on ringlands, it probably went over 9k before he got the clutch back in. Luckily he has forged pistons in it.

[Hontec]

Sequential tranny as in the new suby sequential tranny? I read up on it and it's doesn't support much hp or torque. I really want to do a sequential tranny but haven't come up with a cost effective solution yet. I considered try to design a shifter that would work with the suby tranny but it is not to the must have stage yet. One missed downshift with a suby at high rpm will make the sequential tranny much more important though. My son hotrods a 425 hp sti and missed 5th in the 1/4 mile and putting it in third at 7500 in 4th is tough on ringlands, it probably went over 9k before he got the clutch back in. Luckily he has forged pistons in it.

The Elite transmissions gearbox holds 425 LBS/ft which is 575NM, that will do I think..

Second plus is that it is exactly the same on the outside as the oem subaru box, it fits directly to the subaru engine, no adapterplates, uses stock subaru flywheel and clutch parts etc etc.....

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.eliteracingtransmissions.com-12210-1285356413.1.png)


The Mendeola holds even more power, works with an adapter plate which is developed by OUTfront motorsports for the baya's . the plate is very short and brings the axle closer to the engine, benefit is that if you want to upgrade in the future to let's say a V8 (LS6), you just change the adapterplate.....

[charliew]

If you are talking about the new suby sequential tranny, the info I found was it's not available for a turbo suby motor, that alone should say what it's potential is. I asked a tranny shop about the old sequential suby trannys and the owner said they were not good trannys and very expensive to repair. They basically had metal to metal wear areas but that was the old suby trannys.

I assume you are talking about aftermarket since you mentioned the mendeola and that is not a cost effective solution for my needs.

If they ever get a long term vender on nasioc that can build the 5eat to take 450 ft lbs that would be the closest thing to a sequential I would want to spend my hard earned cash on but it will still probably be 3000.00

[Hontec]

If you are talking about the new suby sequential tranny, the info I found was it's not available for a turbo suby motor, that alone should say what it's potential is. I asked a tranny shop about the old sequential suby trannys and the owner said they were not good trannys and very expensive to repair. They basically had metal to metal wear areas but that was the old suby trannys.

I assume you are talking about aftermarket since you mentioned the mendeola and that is not a cost effective solution for my needs.

Yes, I'm talking about aftermarket transmissions here..

[sawtooth]

Back on the project. Since my last update I have decided to go with a different motor, 2000 ej25 n/a SOHC, usdm, 50K. Also using EMS stinger stand-alone ecu. Outfront is building the harness and setting up the base tune this week. This setup will give me much more potential for n/a power then my original 2.2/2.5 combo. Should give me solid 200chp+ for now and potentially 250chp later, with no turbo lag and no ic and ic heat to deal with.


Gave up on the engine bay cooling route, there's room but just didn't want to mess with it. I'm hoping that just opening up the oil cooler holes and using a decent double pass cooler will be enough, we'll see. Homemade gt valance for now, I'll get a real one later.


Didn't cut anything in the front except for opening up the existing oil cooler holes. Still room for a space-saver spare too.



Also decided to do a subaru trans swap sooner rather than later (thanks for the encouragment bigkat_83 and dbcooper). Got a an early 5spd and will have the new engine cradle finished by this weekend. The SmallCar engine mount arms aren't going to work for this setup. Sent the axles off to Dutchman for re-spline to match up to the suby inner cv. Having them shortened by 2.25in for a total of 18 in. I came up with this amount after measuring and re-measuring where I wanted the final length to be. Depending on ride height, foward position, and personal preference yours may be different, so don't assume this measurement is universal.


Found these for building the trans mount at Summit Machine...excellent service & very high quality stuff.


I'll be welding these to the stock suby trans support and will be using a slightly different approach to the engine cradle, more pics coming soon.


I also picked up an '85 mr2 cable shifter with stock cables from a local wrecking yard. I'll use the stock cables to get the bracket assembly built, then get everything in place and replace with correct length cables. Looks like it'll fit nicely into the stock console with slight modification to the tunnel.

[BIGKAT_83]

Looking great...

You have about the same size inlets for the radiator as I have. I cut these small after blocking off the openings on one of my V8 cars and testing to see how small you can go. On my Subaru car with openings like yours I run right at the thermostat 190'


Bob

[sawtooth]

Looking great...

You have about the same size inlets for the radiator as I have. I cut these small after blocking off the openings on one of my V8 cars and testing to see how small you can go. On my Subaru car with openings like yours I run right at the thermostat 190'


Bob

That's good to hear, I was really hoping not to have to modify the front bumper. This way it's pretty stealth, and a regular gt valance with oil cooler opening will work.

[strawman]

Great project (from another Suby guy)! In the pic above, did you weld that bar connecting the longs to stiffen things up, or as part of the engine mounting system?

Also, are you able/planning to flip the intake manifold (so the throttle body faces forward)? That might preclude you from having to cut too much into the rear firewall for the intake air filter tract. On the earlier engines, the intake mounting bolt patterns on the heads permits that... although I had to develop a custom alternator mount and reroute some hoses/wires after flipping the manifold.

Keep up the great progress!

Geoff

[sawtooth]

Great project (from another Suby guy)! In the pic above, did you weld that bar connecting the longs to stiffen things up, or as part of the engine mounting system?

Also, are you able/planning to flip the intake manifold (so the throttle body faces forward)? That might preclude you from having to cut too much into the rear firewall for the intake air filter tract. On the earlier engines, the intake mounting bolt patterns on the heads permits that... although I had to develop a custom alternator mount and reroute some hoses/wires after flipping the manifold.

Keep up the great progress!

Geoff

Hey Geoff,
That bar was put in place originally as a mounting point for an engine bay radiator. After scrapping that idea I decided to keep it in place for now. It seems like a great place to mount my battery down low and forward, and possibly other items, as well as adding some reinforcement.

Still haven't decided on the intake position. I want to keep the option for a/c open. With the 901 trans, the output shaft location allowed the engine to sit just far enough ahead of the trunk wall to fit an elbow in for the intake. But now with the suby trans, wanting to keep the output shafts lined up you can see it's pretty close to the trunk wall. I believe I'll try to flip it for now, and may move it back later if i decide to do a/c, then I'd have to cut the trunk wall.
- Dean

[sawtooth]

Got some more work done on the car. Engine cradle is finished, just needs powder coat. Got most of the design from DBCooper, a great design that looks good, keeps the stock suby mounts, great support fwd/aft, and is easy to install/uninstall.





trans mount with bushings





I got my re-splined 914 axles back from dutchman. I decided to do a 5-lug conversion since I'm working on axles anyway. After some hunting for the right 911 pieces it finally came together.
Suby CV -> re-splined 914 axle -> 944 CV -> '78 911 stub axle -> '70 911 hub



The '78 stub axles were the toughest part to find.

[Hontec]

Nice setup, but I have a question: I have the same 911 5 lug hubs, but in my case the part/hub that slides into the wheel bearing is about 5mm longer then the original 914 hub shaft, so I need a 5mm spacer between the hub and stub axle to make the bearing fit snug..

simply said: the 914 bearing is less high then the part of the 911 hub that slides into the bearing...

Do you have that too?

In the meanwhile, I took a picture of what I meant:

They are the same height:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i854.photobucket.com-12210-1292149921.1.jpg)


But this is the difference:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i854.photobucket.com-12210-1292149922.2.jpg)

Nothing that can't be solved by machining a spacer ring.....but I was wondering if you had that same issue..

O, and my 944 stubs fit into the 911 hubs.....

[sawtooth]

Yeah, mine look the same as yours. That'd be a good question to ask Sir Andy in this thread.

That's good to know about 944 stubs, would have been a lot easier to find.

[charliew]

Nice work. A person here makes the spacers for the stub you have. PRS 916-6 He also sells the new press stickers for the seat belts.

[sawtooth]

Made some more progress...
- Refinished fuel tank internals with eastwood kit.
- Stainless fuel lines and walbro fuel pump installed
- 2wd conversion spool and cover plate finished
- act 12lb flywheel
- exedy stage 1 clutch
- shortened trans dipstick for clearance
- spent a bunch of time cleaning up motor and trans. New soda blaster worked wonders on getting the corrosion off all the sand casted aluminum.
- Ready to go back in the car and finish connecting up the wiring harness. Hope to fire it up this weekend.

[sawtooth]

Nice work. A person here makes the spacers for the stub you have. PRS 916-6 He also sells the new press stickers for the seat belts.

Thanks for the tip. He didn't have any on hand so I'd need to get a small group buy for 3 going. I ended up just having my local machinist whip some up for me.

[sawtooth]

Got to drive my car for the first time in over 2 years last night, pretty surreal with everything finally coming together in one moment. Man I'm excited about this setup. All I can say is that it's everything I hoped it would be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) No, it's not a fire breathing turbo monster, but at around 220chp the power feels like a perfect balance for this car, hard pulling power all the way through. The torque of this motor is very good. I was really surprised to find that it'll idle up my fairly steep driveway in 1st with no extra throttle, didn't expect that. Only car I've seen do that is my jetta tdi. The suby trans is outstanding, short precise and smooth shifts. Thanks bigkat_83 and dbcooper for giving me the confidence to go for the suby trans! I ended up using my stock clutch pedal with a new heavy duty push/pull cable. Since my trans was a cable clutch to begin with I decided to give it a try. I'm really glad I did, the clutch feels fantastic. Still need to finish the exhaust, just running the equal length header right now. Will post some more pics and video once the exhaust is done.