the sawtooth build thread Options

[Ferg]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) Very Nice!

[BIGKAT_83]

Looks real nice. You used a cable clutch? I guess it would be pretty easy to make a mount for the cable where the slave cylinder went.


GOOD JOB.............................


Bob

[sawtooth]

Looks real nice. You used a cable clutch? I guess it would be pretty easy to make a mount for the cable where the slave cylinder went.


GOOD JOB.............................


Bob

Thanks Bob, I've really appreciated your help. Yep my trans was cable clutch to begin with. It's from an outback so its a push-style clutch. Everything I could find to read says that all suby 5spd trannys are basically the same from early 90's on up, slight difference in gear ratios. So I used a '93 awd 5spd I bought locally for $40. My goal was to use it as a test platform to get the cradle and everything else built before laying down the cash to get a wrx trans. We'll see how it holds up but judging by the way it feels right now I won't be changing it out any time soon. I replaced the stock clutch cable with a heavy push/pull cable. Made a bulkhead mount in the tunnel near the pedal, and built a new bulkhead mount at the trans. It's action is like butter and I like the old school feel where you can tell where the clutch is.

[charliew]

For good info on the strengths of the VARIOUS suby awd trannys go to the tranny section on nasioc. All the 5 spds are not the same. They are used in order of torque and awd and 2wd, but really mostly by the torque of the motor in the stock application. Your tranny may hold up just fine. As I'm sure you know some people can break a anvil. But as far as I know the turbo 05 legacy and possibly later wrx's have thicker gears and better syncros. My son's 6 spd sti tranny started scratching 5th at 7k early on so even the good ones may develop problems.

[sawtooth]

For good info on the strengths of the VARIOUS suby awd trannys go to the tranny section on nasioc. All the 5 spds are not the same. They are used in order of torque and awd and 2wd, but really mostly by the torque of the motor in the stock application. Your tranny may hold up just fine. As I'm sure you know some people can break a anvil. But as far as I know the turbo 05 legacy and possibly later wrx's have thicker gears and better syncros. My son's 6 spd sti tranny started scratching 5th at 7k early on so even the good ones may develop problems.

Thanks, good info. What I should have said was that I learned that awd 5spds are interchangeable which is why I chose to start with the one I have. The great thing is that it's an easy swap to drop in a newer wrx trans at some point if needed. I'll just have to switch over to a hydraulic clutch pedal setup. But for now I'm just going to drive it til it gives up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

[sawtooth]

After a quick break for some honey-do's and enjoying driving the car for a bit, it's on to body and paint. Staying with green, but thinking of changing to a little different shade of green. We'll see, first got to get the body work done.

[charliew]

Actually you can probably just get the legacy internal parts and put them in your tranny. The 05 legacy tranny I have uses a clutch fork with the pivot ball instead of the wrx style cross shaft throwout arm and it also has a damaged case so I will put the later parts in a earlier tranny.

[sawtooth]

Actually you can probably just get the legacy internal parts and put them in your tranny. The 05 legacy tranny I have uses a clutch fork with the pivot ball instead of the wrx style cross shaft throwout arm and it also has a damaged case so I will put the later parts in a earlier tranny.

Nice, I could keep my cable clutch then. Sounds like a good plan to me, I'll check it out. Thanks!

[JRust]

I'm so much more excited reading your thread after buying one. I will be picking your brain soon. Did you do anything to your motor? How are you getting the 220hp? I thought the 2.5 was like 160 stock. I still have plenty of research to do there. Your cradle is looking good man. I will need to hit you guys up for some info on that bad boy. If I can get 200+ out of this motor I will be thrilled. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[sawtooth]

I'm so much more excited reading your thread after buying one. I will be picking your brain soon. Did you do anything to your motor? How are you getting the 220hp? I thought the 2.5 was like 160 stock. I still have plenty of research to do there. Your cradle is looking good man. I will need to hit you guys up for some info on that bad boy. If I can get 200+ out of this motor I will be thrilled. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

Hey Jamie, I just got back from taking another drive this evening. Too much fun, exploring the power band a little at a time until I gain more confidence in the whole setup.

So the 2.5 is 165hp with the stock ecu. Here's what I have over and above that:
- EMS Stinger instead of stock ecu. Outfront uses this computer in most of their suby dune cars and they say they can get well over 200hp with the stinger.
- Equal length header which is proven to add 10-15hp wheel HP by guys at nasioc.
- Cheap but effective high flow intake which really helps open it up.
- I'll also be doing cams which can add another 15-20hp
- I also have an ACT 12.9lb chromoly flywheel and exedy clutch setup. While this doesn't add any hp, it certainly brings the power on much faster.

Matt Monson describes this setup in the Suby Fever thread here. See post #2 where he says 225 is very attainable with this motor, that is with the stock ecu just doing cams intake and exhaust. The stinger adds even more tunable potential. So when I do the cams I should be close to 250chp at that point may be too optimistic but we'll see.


More than happy to share anything I can with you, just let me know what you need.
- Dean

[charliew]

Matt's been around a long time and is very knowledgeable. I just wish I knew what he knows and could always remenber all of it. I enjoy reviewing that thread. Google cfm flow to hp and torque, there are formulas for power. The suby has a pretty good ve but from my memory the good heads flow about 220-230-240 cfm on the intakes na. When you go to 14 psi on the turbo you double the cfm flow to the cylinder thats how a 2.5 can perform like a 5.0 but still get the fuel economy of the 2.5 off boost if you leave the ports stock. When you go to bigger cams on na you always loose some lowend power on any motor, the same with bigger ports. My google button found 1 hp = 1.45 cfm There are charts somewhere on this.

For me 250 is VERY optimistic. That will probably be on the lean scary side on av gas with 11:1-12:1 compression, which means a built motor. Probably a 8000.00 motor if you pay for it.

[sawtooth]

Matt's been around a long time and is very knowledgeable. I just wish I knew what he knows and could always remenber all of it. I enjoy reviewing that thread. Google cfm flow to hp and torque, there are formulas for power. The suby has a pretty good ve but from my memory the good heads flow about 220-230-240 cfm on the intakes na. When you go to 14 psi on the turbo you double the cfm flow to the cylinder thats how a 2.5 can perform like a 5.0 but still get the fuel economy of the 2.5 off boost if you leave the ports stock. When you go to bigger cams on na you always loose some lowend power on any motor, the same with bigger ports. My google button found 1 hp = 1.45 cfm There are charts somewhere on this.

For me 250 is VERY optimistic. That will probably be on the lean scary side on av gas with 11:1-12:1 compression, which means a built motor. Probably a 8000.00 motor if you pay for it.

I guess for me it comes down to this... say Matt is wrong and I can only squeeze 200chp out of this motor. With the flat torque curve I've seen out of this motor, it has more than enough power to make the 914 feel pretty crazy. It's a good balance for this car. I'm obviously not an expert on any of this by any standard. But I do know from an upgraded STI that I get to drive once in a while that it has an enormous hit, but comes on pretty late, there is definitely a lag waiting for the power to come on. I like the way my car pulls better, it's very strong right from the start. No, it doesn't produce anywhere near the same power at the top side, but down low and in the medium range it is more than enough for me. That, combined with the simplicity of not having a turbo is a winning combination for me. If it's not enough, I could plug-n-play upgrade to an EZ30R to get 300hp without a turbo.

charliew, seriously love getting your feedback, gets me thinking through things. Really appreciate it.
- Dean

[draganc]

Congratulations!! Great wotk and I’m glad it worked out the way you wanted!

Just a small reminder:

“…That way I can be finished, and enjoying the car in months, not years...“ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

And

“….my car for the first time in over 2 years last night…”


I wish I could drive my 914 and it’s been about 1.5 years. Heck I wish I even drove my car once – it never drove when I bought it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

I remember the day my '76 2.0 FI - silver - was delivered on a flat bed and my wife asked why didn’t I drive the car home.
The answer was that it was sitting in a garage for 8 years. Her comment: then it should have stayed in that garage for another 8 years.

[sawtooth]

Congratulations!! Great wotk and I’m glad it worked out the way you wanted!

Just a small reminder:

“…That way I can be finished, and enjoying the car in months, not years...“ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

And

“….my car for the first time in over 2 years last night…”


I wish I could drive my 914 and it’s been about 1.5 years. Heck I wish I even drove my car once – it never drove when I bought it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

I remember the day my '76 2.0 FI - silver - was delivered on a flat bed and my wife asked why didn’t I drive the car home.
The answer was that it was sitting in a garage for 8 years. Her comment: then it should have stayed in that garage for another 8 years.

Yeah, you had to bring that up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) I should know better than to spout off, especially in writing. Can't help it most of the time but I'm working on it. I went back and looked, all in all it was about 3-4 months of work on nights, weekends, and my week of forced vacation at Christmas. I really didn't get rolling until November last year. But the good side of it is that during all that time I was not working on the car I did manage to keep doing research which helped make some key changes to my game plan that I'm really happy with now.

Just got back from getting final exhaust done, man I wish I could take you for a drive. It has put a permanent smiley on my face.

[draganc]

... man I wish I could take you for a drive. It has put a permanent smiley on my face...

thanks for the offer man!
it's been freaking freezing in NJ the last 3-4 months and it bugs the hell out of me that I can't work on my car. the last accomplishment was new trailing arm bearings.

[bfrymire]

Dean,

How did you handle the ignitors for the coils? I know MS has built in ignitors. But some of the other EMC's do not.

Not familiar with the stinger....

Also, isn't there some kind of unwritten rule, that it's not really running until there is a youtube video of it.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Still waiting for start on my conversion. Too many projects and my job keeps getting in the way...

-- brett

[jd74914]

How did you handle the ignitors for the coils? I know MS has built in ignitors. But some of the other EMC's do not.

Sorry for the hijack (I also have no idea how the Stinger works), but many aftermarket ECU's (Microsquirt, a few Motecs, Adaptronics, etc) use the Bosch 211 ignition module found on a bunch of VW 1.8T's. http://www.microsquirt.info/Bosch_211.htm


Awesome job Dean!! The conversion looks great! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[bfrymire]

How did you handle the ignitors for the coils? I know MS has built in ignitors. But some of the other EMC's do not.

Sorry for the hijack (I also have no idea how the Stinger works), but many aftermarket ECU's (Microsquirt, a few Motecs, Adaptronics, etc) use the Bosch 211 ignition module found on a bunch of VW 1.8T's. http://www.microsquirt.info/Bosch_211.htm


Awesome job Dean!! The conversion looks great! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for the prompt reply and great info.

Are there any other ones that could be used? Not to be a CSOB, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) but $150+ seems a little steep. I could make one cheaper with the Bosch BIP373 used with MS. Even a four channel is $30 in parts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-- brett

[sawtooth]

Dean,

How did you handle the ignitors for the coils? I know MS has built in ignitors. But some of the other EMC's do not.

Not familiar with the stinger....

Also, isn't there some kind of unwritten rule, that it's not really running until there is a youtube video of it.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Still waiting for start on my conversion. Too many projects and my job keeps getting in the way...

-- brett

Hey Brett, it must be built in with stinger, I didn't have to do anything except plug in the engine harness they made for me and connect a few wires for the ecu power, fuel pump, etc. So easy even I could do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
You'll just have to take my word for it, it's running... ok the video documentary will be revealed soon.

[bfrymire]

Dean,

How did you handle the ignitors for the coils? I know MS has built in ignitors. But some of the other EMC's do not.

Not familiar with the stinger....

Also, isn't there some kind of unwritten rule, that it's not really running until there is a youtube video of it.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Still waiting for start on my conversion. Too many projects and my job keeps getting in the way...

-- brett

Hey Brett, it must be built in with stinger, I didn't have to do anything except plug in the engine harness they made for me and connect a few wires for the ecu power, fuel pump, etc. So easy even I could do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
You'll just have to take my word for it, it's running... ok the video documentary will be revealed soon.

Thanks for the info. I have a Link ECU and it states in the docs that it can't drive the coils directly. I will have to continue to research. I do have a MS II i can use also... We'll see which direction I go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Looking forward to seeing the video.

-- brett