Easy way to check for toe-in? Options

[TonyAKAVW]

I just received tires today to replace my front tires, which have worn on the inside much faster than the outside. My rear tires still have a lot of tread, whereas the fronts are basically bald on the inside. My guess is that its either toe-in or camber. The wheels don't look cambered any more than the back, though the front of the car does sit a bit lower than the back.

So my question is, is there a way to easily check to see if the front has too much toe-in? I was thinking about rigging up some laser pointers or something, but I don't know.

I would like to avoid getting an alignment because later this year I'll be putting on my carerra front suspension. For now I'd just like to prevent premature wear of the tires.

Tony

[bondo]

Tape measure. Point wheels straight, measure between the front and between the back of the front wheels. (or around the front and back, or between centers of the front and back, etc.)

[john rogers]

If can get my article from the Pelican site it detals how to do home toe and camber checking. The camber is easy as you can use a large carpenter's square but the toe requires something to sit against both wheels so you can run a tape under the car and measure on both sides of the wheel. One way to get a rough feel of the toe with no tools is to chalk mark the tire on both sides a few inches from the ground either in the front or back of the front tires. Do a measurement and then roll the car so the chalk mark is near the ground on the other side and then measure the distance between the chalk marks. This would be a very rough approximation but the charts in my article can convert the fractions of an inch to degrees.

[Twystd1]

Yup,
Tape measure is your friend...

C

[Howard]

Tony, there's a guy out here who charged me $75 for a complete 4 wheel including thrust. Really fancy equipment. Neato printout.

[SLITS]

Old alignment guys jack the car up, set a chalk holder in front of the tire approximately centered in relation to tread width, spin the tire which markes the entire circumference .... then a tape measure.

It's nice to be able to take the measurements off the rim on a diametrical line, horizontal to the ground, thru the center of the spindle.

Yes thank you, I've had a few (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)



Edit: An Howie, you're ..... you're a freakin' Yuppie!

[PRS914-6]

The easy way....Flat surface required.....Place a piece of masking tape on each tire the same height on each tire. Place a vertical mark or dot with a FINE marker on each. (pen or sharp pencil not chalk).

Take a measurement in the front. Roll the car so the tape rolls over the top direction and measure the backside. Subtract the difference.....Need not be more complicated.....

[JoeSharp]

Tony: We do it here with string and 4 jack stands. I put the string 74" apart centered on the car at the elevation of the center of the wheels and measure.
Rear needs a little toe also.

[Borderline]

Tony:

I went the laser route and am pretty happy with it. here's a link: Bill's alignment

skip on down toward the end. I spent a lot of time trying to find the center of the car and that wasn't necessary. the problem with the laser/mirror method is gettin everything calibrated. The angle that holds the mirrors has to be straight and the laser holder has to be "squared". The neat thing is that you are measuring small angles over long distances making the measurements a lot easier.

I spent a lot of time on this. It may not be worth it for you. I just like doing stuff myself.

[TonyAKAVW]

I took the wheels and tires in this morning and the guy I gave them to said "You really need to get an alignment this is severe camber wear." So, maybe its camber after all. In any case I'll try to do some measurements at home.

-Tony

[r_towle]

simple low budget idea.

Tools needed
Framing square
Tape measure
Chalk line

one a flat surface, take the framing square and with the front wheels straight.
Set the short leg of the framing square on the ground, the long leg up against the front of the tire, centerline of the sidewall, pick a spot that is easily repeatable.

Now, on the floor draw a mark the represents the surface of the tire.
Do the rear of the tire..
Take the chalk line and snap a line between these two points, so you end up with a 2-3 foot line on the floor

Do the other three tires the same way.
To be really accurate, you can use the rim, measure from the rim to the square, both front and rear of the tire...exactly the same amount..use a mm measureing device...draw the line on the floor (on masking tape) with a small leaded pencil..the line is thinner that way..

Now, you have four lines on the floor
These are representations of the plane of each wheel.
Tape measure across the floor to see what the measurements are.

Typically you should have 1/16th to 1/8 inch toe in on each tire..
That is for street.
When you have a TOTAL difference of 1/4 inch smaller at the fromt of the line versus the rear, you are there.

Now, to verify, without lazers or paying any money..
two ways work
One is put wet newspaper on the floor, roll car over paper...the tires will twist the paper so you can see if they are toed out or in.

second way is to drive over to a buddy who has a pyrometer, and right after you stop, measure the heat on the inside and outside of all four tires...the hotter they are on the inside, the more toe out you have.

the overall idea is that when you accelerate the tires naturally toe out during acceleration, so you set the car up pre loaded with a slight toe in, so when you are accelerating, the tires become parallel.

Rich

[andys]

The easy way....Flat surface required.....Place a piece of masking tape on each tire the same height on each tire. Place a vertical mark or dot with a FINE marker on each. (pen or sharp pencil not chalk).

Take a measurement in the front. Roll the car so the tape rolls over the top direction and measure the backside. Subtract the difference.....Need not be more complicated.....

I pretty much do the same. Place blocks (2x4's) to limit the rolling to get the mark the same height on the front as on the back. The problem is that it's always a two-person job if you want any degree of accuracy. This method eliminates errors due to wheel or tire wobble/run-out, and any suspension slop (though you shouldn't have any). Done it this way for years.

Andys

[anderssj]

Tony,

IIRC, if a car is toed-out, it wears out the inside edges of the tire--makes the tire look like too much negative camber. Too much toe-in has the opposite effect--wear on the outside edges of the tire. Too much or too little toe can wear tires even faster than too much or too little camber.

How does the car react to bumps, braking, etc? If it feels "twitchy" at all you may have at least the front toed-out . . .

Oh, you may also want to check the toe when the tank is full and with a person in the driver's seat. The car toes in as it gets lighter, so setting it when it's too light means it'll toe out some when you fill the tank (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Hope that makes sense . . . .

Aside from that, what they (all ) said.

Hope this helps.

[DBCooper]

For a quick one-man adjustment after work on the suspension I use two yardsticks and some vicegrips. Put the ends of each yardstick on the same (repeatable) spot on the inside front of the tire and then clamp the two yardsticks together where they overlap to fix the length. Then take the assembly to the back side of the wheels and put them in the same spot on the tires and measure the gap. That's the toe. Adjust the tie rods until the toe's where you want it. It sounds rough, but usually turns out surprisingly close to where it should be when the car's aligned on a machine.

One thing not mentioned above is to always do any adjustments with the car on the ground and full running weight (gasoline, driver) in the car. I've seen people try to set the alignment with the car in the air and suspension unloaded, which will be wrong as soon as the car's back on the ground.

[woobn8r]

I'm in the tire business and I'd bet real money (Canadian) that it is a "toe out" issue....negative camber would have to be severe and run many miles to wear out the inside couple of ribs with just street driving.

I have done my own race car alignments for years....like many others here, but if I were you I'd just spend the $75.00 and have a professional do the job...they will also be able to see possible culprits other than being out of adjustment....ie.bent steering arms, spindles, worn bearings etc...y'now just in case.

[John]

The two easiest methods I could let the typical home mechanic with typical tools would be:

A. The string method of wheel alignment. Using 4 jackstands, string, tape measure, straight edge, and a ruler.

There are threads describing this in detail, but the jist is to locate the centerline of the car and mark it on the ground. Measure outward from this line to a point very close to the wheels on each side. Mark out lnes using these points. The lnes should be parallel with the centerline of the car. Place the jackstands ahead and behind the car on these lines.

Tie the strings to the jackstands so that the strings are close to the center of the wheels on each side of the car. These should also be parallel with the centerline of the car. You can then measure the distance between the front of the wheel rim and the string and measure the distance between the rear of the wheel rim and the string. This will measure the toe in (larger number at the front of the rim) or toe-out (smaller number at the front of the rim).

B. Using two pieces sheet metal bent into an L shape. The larger the better. One leg of the L should be at least as high as the centerline of the rim. The other leg should be long enough that the L can stand by itself. The L should be long enough that it touches the tire or rim at the front and the back of the wheel.

The L shape should have two slots (for a tape measure) near the intersection of the two legs. One at the front and one at the rear.

Place one L shape at each of the front tires so that they are tight aganst the rim or tire at the front and back. Measure directly across the front of the L shapes (using the slots helps to do this with only one person). Measure across the rear of the L shapes.

The difference between the two measurements will give you an indicaton of total toe. Larger number in front = toe out. Smaller number in front = toe in.

You want just a bit of toe-in. You probably don't want zero toe or toe out. The cars are twitchy that way.



There is no substitute for a computerzed 4-wheel alignment performed by a well trained and hard working alignment specialist. I don't trust anyone so I bought my own alignment machine. I can make changes to the setup and verify results and don't have to pay $75-$100 each time. (The machne has paid for itself)

[bondo]

they will also be able to see possible culprits other than being out of adjustment....ie.bent steering arms, spindles, worn bearings etc...y'now just in case.

BTDT... On my Mustang I figured out how to adjust the caster so it would track straight... so I added caster to one side to make it track straight, and was on my way. After a while I'd have to add more. It got to the point where I started carrying the big-ass wrench around with me. Right about the point where I was getting really curious about what the heck was going on, my upper control arm broke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)