Restoration or Porscharu, Whether to restore or Suberize Options

[R_u_dd]

I've got a 1971 914-4 with the 1.7 in need of restoration. The body has some minor dents, typical rust not severe but needs work. Looks to be the original engine and transmission. Most of the parts are there, though corroded.

Manufactured 10/70
vin 4712904015
4259606 L21E Tangerine
engine W018107x

I would like to make it a Porscheru with the WRX 2.0 Turbo and Subaru transmission wiring harness and ecu. But, I have misgivings about transforming a car that could also be restored to the original. Let's say I would like to stay around $5,000 (maybe I'm dreaming here), first do the metal repairs and paint, then drop in the Subaru engine. Similar to Orange 75 Project, engine is in...

I am looking for a little better performance and I'm not sure the original 80 hp engine with a lot of work involved is the answer.

So, for the return on investment, is it worth doing a restoration, or as my wife says, "do what you want to do with the car"- that would be the Porscheru.

Restore or Suberize?

Click below for all the pictures:

Photos on Photobucket


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1301.photobucket.com-17072-1401772696.1.jpg)

Battery tray area

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1301.photobucket.com-17072-1401772696.2.jpg)

Engine with corrosion and rust

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1301.photobucket.com-17072-1401772697.3.jpg)

Engine Out

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1301.photobucket.com-17072-1401772697.4.jpg)

[mgp4591]

I also have a 71 with a 1.7 and I'm gathering parts for the Subaru conversion, however I want to keep everything I can from the old setup so it can return to original status if so desired. Everything from the Subie swap can be removed without much of a trace- that's how I justify my swap. 80 hp just don't get it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[OllieG]

I had a similar dilemma with mine..just this once, I would say 'listen to your wife'!!

If you properly restore it; bodywork, paint, engine, interior etc etc etc, you will never make your money back on it...you might if it was an original 6 but not a 1.7.

I'm also not so sure it would be all that easy to convert back to original spec after doing a Suby conversion?..you'd have installed a radiator and plumbing, played around with the engine compartment and shelf, re-configured the electrics etc...maybe I'm wrong??

Definitely make the car you want.

After seriously considering putting in a Suby 3.0 into mine, I'm now back to waiting and saving money for a Porsche 6; should be on the road by 2030!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Good luck..

[OU8AVW]

Suby....Do it!

[CptTripps]

Any which way you slice it, you've got your work cut out for you.

From MY experience (which I can only offer because you need to make the decision for yourself) the Subie conversion is MILES further than it was even a year or two ago. With a lot of the parts that Ian is making, you can have a stellar power-plant and transmission that's relatively easy to do. There are a metric-ton of upgrades available to push the car well past 300HP if you desire. Or, even a stock EJ20 is north of 200HP by the time you yank all the unnecessary crap like PS, PB, AC off the motor. The cable-shift linkage and 2WD trans shift easily which can make for a lot more fun driving.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of experiences that you can pull from on both sides of your decision. I'm sure others will chime in here, but you're looking for about $3K-$5K in "stuff" needed for the subie conversion. I wouldn't skimp on the brakes either, so you'll need to think through that if you're looking at nearly tripling the HP for the car. Going fast means you'll need to stop fast too.

Good luck, and we're here for you however you go with it.

Could be kinda cool to have an Bumble-Bee with a turbo though...

[Rotary'14]

I think you can do a suby conversion that is reversible if you mount the radiator in the back, and you have to use a 901 trans. Then I think the conversion is a 2 way street. I mounted my radiator where the engine lid goes and except for the hottest days(90+) I don't run hot. I am also using a mazda 13b rotary engine, one that is notorious for running hot. I am very confident it can be done to a suby 4 banger.

-Robert

[R_u_dd]

I think you can do a suby conversion that is reversible if you mount the radiator in the back, and you have to use a 901 trans. Then I think the conversion is a 2 way street. I mounted my radiator where the engine lid goes and except for the hottest days(90+) I don't run hot. I am also using a mazda 13b rotary engine, one that is notorious for running hot. I am very confident it can be done to a suby 4 banger.

-Robert

Well, that's an interesting thought. I would rather put the radiator in the back anyway, but it seems to give people problems. Anyone have a link to a post that shows it done successfully?

By the way, is it Porsche ru, or Porsch aru ???

[R_u_dd]

Any which way you slice it, you've got your work cut out for you.

From MY experience (which I can only offer because you need to make the decision for yourself) the Subie conversion is MILES further than it was even a year or two ago. With a lot of the parts that Ian is making, you can have a stellar power-plant and transmission that's relatively easy to do. There are a metric-ton of upgrades available to push the car well past 300HP if you desire. Or, even a stock EJ20 is north of 200HP by the time you yank all the unnecessary crap like PS, PB, AC off the motor. The cable-shift linkage and 2WD trans shift easily which can make for a lot more fun driving.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of experiences that you can pull from on both sides of your decision. I'm sure others will chime in here, but you're looking for about $3K-$5K in "stuff" needed for the subie conversion. I wouldn't skimp on the brakes either, so you'll need to think through that if you're looking at nearly tripling the HP for the car. Going fast means you'll need to stop fast too.

Good luck, and we're here for you however you go with it.

Could be kinda cool to have an Bumble-Bee with a turbo though...

I appreciate all the feedback. This is great. I wanted to make sure I am not committing a grave Porsche sin here by destroying a decent car, but the 1.7 is not all that desirable... and my car is way less than pristine.

Interesting thoughts on the 2wd tranny. It would be nice to hold out for one if I can find one. My thoughts on the WRX EJ20 are that they are plentiful and use the manual tranny more readily than the forester and legends with the 2.5 which mostly have auto trannyy's. The ecu would be wrong on most 2.5 autos, for a Porshe transmission??

I like the idea of a smooth shifting transmission which may be harder to achieve with the Porsche (901?).

I will keep my eyes open for the Subie threads and what Ian has to offer.

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[R_u_dd]

I had a similar dilemma with mine..just this once, I would say 'listen to your wife'!!

If you properly restore it; bodywork, paint, engine, interior etc etc etc, you will never make your money back on it...you might if it was an original 6 but not a 1.7.

I'm also not so sure it would be all that easy to convert back to original spec after doing a Suby conversion?..you'd have installed a radiator and plumbing, played around with the engine compartment and shelf, re-configured the electrics etc...maybe I'm wrong??

Definitely make the car you want.

After seriously considering putting in a Suby 3.0 into mine, I'm now back to waiting and saving money for a Porsche 6; should be on the road by 2030!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Good luck..

The Porsche 6 would definitely be the way to go, but I think my budget is prohibitive there.

Yes, I was glad to hear my wife supportive of the process. I want her to be riding alongside me... but I'll drive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[R_u_dd]

I also have a 71 with a 1.7 and I'm gathering parts for the Subaru conversion, however I want to keep everything I can from the old setup so it can return to original status if so desired. Everything from the Subie swap can be removed without much of a trace- that's how I justify my swap. 80 hp just don't get it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yes, you feel my pain. I would love to go with the original setup, but the most I could crank out of this engine is maybe 150 hp with a lot of suped up parts and maybe $6k, but I can get an EJ20 (200+hp), ecu, wiring harness and 5spd manual, JDM import for $1.5k. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[76-914]

Stock EJ20's or Turbo'd EJ20's are cranking out over 200hp??? I thought the 2.5 was 165hp. North of 200hp would put you in the category of a EG33 or EZ30D/R, 6 cylinder???
There aren't any snags with the ECU if the car was an auto originally. You'll just need the GB wire off the VSS harness to signal your ECU.
If you can weld you'll save about $500 if you build your own cradle and another $175 if you build your own shifter. Save another $600 if you make your own harness. Radiator/fans/related plumbing = $200-$500. The center differential from the Suby transmission will get you $250-$300 on Ebay. You'll need to upgrade your rear suspension to accommodate the extra weight if you go with a six. Otherwise stock is good.

[Rotary'14]

I think you can do a suby conversion that is reversible if you mount the radiator in the back, and you have to use a 901 trans. Then I think the conversion is a 2 way street. I mounted my radiator where the engine lid goes and except for the hottest days(90+) I don't run hot. I am also using a mazda 13b rotary engine, one that is notorious for running hot. I am very confident it can be done to a suby 4 banger.

-Robert

Well, that's an interesting thought. I would rather put the radiator in the back anyway, but it seems to give people problems. Anyone have a link to a post that shows it done successfully?

By the way, is it Porsche ru, or Porsch aru ???

I should link it in my sig,, but here you go
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...less+conversion

-Robert

[CptTripps]

I appreciate all the feedback. This is great. I wanted to make sure I am not committing a grave Porsche sin here by destroying a decent car, but the 1.7 is not all that desirable... and my car is way less than pristine.

Interesting thoughts on the 2wd tranny. It would be nice to hold out for one if I can find one. My thoughts on the WRX EJ20 are that they are plentiful and use the manual tranny more readily than the forester and legends with the 2.5 which mostly have auto trannyy's. The ecu would be wrong on most 2.5 autos, for a Porshe transmission??

I like the idea of a smooth shifting transmission which may be harder to achieve with the Porsche (901?).

I will keep my eyes open for the Subie threads and what Ian has to offer.

Your best bet is to convert the AWD to 2WD. Easy to do, and takes up less room than the 2WD they did. (I think anyway) LOTS of people making the gear you need.

Plan on about $1K in stuff from Ian. Engine Cradle, 2WD conversion, Shift linkage, Motor mounts are all TOP NOTCH!

You can get an STI with the ECU and Trans for about $3K on eBay. Like this one...

Wrx STI Engine EJ20-T

[Rotary'14]

This is a link to scotty914,, he's the other guy who did an engine comp radiator and drove it across the country to WCC 05

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=25940&st=0

[R_u_dd]

Stock EJ20's or Turbo'd EJ20's are cranking out over 200hp??? I thought the 2.5 was 165hp. North of 200hp would put you in the category of a EG33 or EZ30D/R, 6 cylinder???
There aren't any snags with the ECU if the car was an auto originally. You'll just need the GB wire off the VSS harness to signal your ECU.
If you can weld you'll save about $500 if you build your own cradle and another $175 if you build your own shifter. Save another $600 if you make your own harness. Radiator/fans/related plumbing = $200-$500. The center differential from the Suby transmission will get you $250-$300 on Ebay. You'll need to upgrade your rear suspension to accommodate the extra weight if you go with a six. Otherwise stock is good.

The Wikipedia section is a bit confusing on which of the 2.0's produce the horsepower, there's a double turbo and a turbo. I would just assume go with the 2.5 at 165 hp if I had as many transmission options.

Is there a better web source for horsepower on stock suby engines?

According to this guy, they have between 227 and 300 HP

GB -> VSS -> ECU. Ok, when I get there, I'll have to figure out what's a GB.

Still wondering if it's a Subie, Porscheru, Porscharu, or, I've seen Porsharu. I think I'll do the conversion...

[76-914]

This is a link to scotty914,, he's the other guy who did an engine comp radiator and drove it across the country to WCC 05

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=25940&st=0

He's deleted all but one pic. Not very helpful, now. Robert, why not show him a pic of your setup. I think that's what he needs.