944 stubs/CV's OR Type 1's for Frankenstein Setup?, Parts have arrived! Options

[Chris H.]

Goooood Morning,

So...my outer CV's seem to be shot. They are 914 and original 40 year olds. I popped another one last night. Tow truck ride! Yaaaay! Dang those things make a terrible noise when they come undone don't they? This is the 2nd one to pull this on me (other side last time). The last time the inner race worked its way loose. Guessing the same thing happened again. My axles are Subaru on one side, 914 on the other (sway-a-way).

Options:

- Get new Type 1 CV's. Looks like Tangerine and PMB carry them. One has the lip machined. Supposed to be very strong. My axles have very little angle to them. The Type 1's are being used on pretty powerful cars, so they SHOULD hold up. Mine's just ~230 hp (maybe) compared to some race cars that are far higher.

- Go with 951's, which are a stronger. Spent a lot of time figuring out what's needed and I THINK I have it.

Based on Aarons diagram (a tribute to Miles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) this is the standard setup:



I'd be going half way with this. Don't need anything to the right of the axle.

Questions:

1. I have re-drilled 914-4 rear hubs. Is the 951 stub (951 331 231 01) splined the same so it fits? Aaron's diagram notes a pre-'74 911 stub which I believe is the same spline count based on 20 searches (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Other threads also mention you can use 914-6 stubs which should have the same spline count as the 4's right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ? Pretty sure I'm right but would hate to be wrong.

2. Does anyone make the spacer that is needed or found one that works that's pre-made? I see there is an option to machine off a portion of the hub so it matches. Is that a better idea?

If I can use the existing re-drilled 914-4 hub I would need the following parts:

- 951 stub axle part # 951 331 235 01
- 33 spline 944 CV part # 944 331 901 00
- spacer (or machine the excess off of the hub)

Cost difference is about $200 total.

What do the experts think?

[Luke M]

You need the early or late 911 5 lug hub. The late 74-89 needs a 5 mm spacer if going this way. Get some 911 SC 6 bolt 100 mm outer stubs axles and they will bolt to the 100 mm 6 bolt 944 cv's . I forget which year but the 944 cv have the same as the 914 axle splines.

[Chris H.]

Yeah I found a comment in Eric's thread...that 914-4 hubs will ONLY fit 914-4 stubs. Crap. Might just try a set of fresh Type 1's and see what happens. Gathering all those parts will take me to next year and $800ish lighter.

[914Sixer]

Here is the 911 SC set up with the 915 trans flanges that go with it. Uses 6 bolt 100mm 944 CV joint. You can get new larger swayaway axles or trim 4 mm off stock 914 axle as shown in the Sir Andy Axles in the classic section. You will need a 5 bolt hub and rotor too.

[Chris H.]

Thanks. In this case I only need the outboard part. The inboard part connected to the trans is Subaru. I have a 5 bolt rotor since my car is 5 lug. I have sway a way axles with plenty of extra space for the 944 CV.

I have a 5 bolt hub, but it's a 914 redrilled hub. Can't use that, correct?

So the best/easiest solution is

911sc hub (5mm spacer) - 911sc stub axle - 944 cv - sway-a-way axle ??

What's with the 951 setup? Thought that was possible?

69-73 hub or ? (later hub with spacer? Boxster hub?) - 951 stub - 944 CV - sway - a-way axle

[914Sixer]

944/Turbo stubs require a custom spacer to level up stub. All the info is in classic threads.

[Chris H.]

Thanks. Yeah I know...just having trouble getting it through my thick head...For some reason I don't GET IT entirely in terms of compatibility. Need to know EXACTLY what to buy and where to get it. Seems like the older 5 lug hubs are very hard to find. I also think I looked at way too many threads (not just Classics, all over the place). Some threads say only 69-73 hubs. Some say pre-74. Some threads say use the 951 stub axle, others say 911 ONLY like '76 - '79, and still others say all the way to '89 is fine. And do they all need spacers? Some say use 914-6 hubs, some say whatever you do DON'T USE those. Still don't comprehend why the 914-4 redrilled hub wouldn't work but maybe it has a unique spline count.

[76-914]

Do you have it apart yet? And why don't I have this problem if it is a weak CV? Don't the swayaway's float? Could that be an issue. You said you "kind of got on it". Did you mash it from a dead stop or just put your foot in it while rolling? I've done several hard 2nd gear shifts w/205's to the point of going sideways and not one problem with the CV's, yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[Chris H.]

Yeah I was thinking that just now. Haven't dissected it yet, but no one else seems to be having this issue...

Went around a corner that was about 45 degrees, speed limit was ~40 ish then out onto a country road. Around the corner I gave it some gas but nothing major. 2nd gear...wouldn't have caused tire spin or anything. Might even have it on video. I wasn't at a dead stop which like when it would happen. It always happens around a corner. Wondering if the axles are floating too much. The stock axles have a lip to prevent floating. The sway a ways have an inch of float roughly. Maybe I need a "bump stop" to restrict the floating. Or it could just be that the CV's were tired to start with but since the former powerplant was ...ahemm... a little weak... at 72 hp from the factory and the clutch was a bit worn the CVs were "good enough". I'll get the axle out and post some pics tomorrow. With the HP I have I really think I could stick with the stock CVs (or new Type 1's, whatever...).

[BIGKAT_83]

Call me in a couple of hours I have everything you need.

[Chris H.]

Sounds great Bob! I'll call you tonight. Can't wait to hear about your LS1 car too. Sounds like you have it just about done.

[TravisNeff]

Giving this thread a bump.

I have the 951 stub axle, 911sc hub and a 5mm spacer. I am running into problems.

First try, I was going to put the spacer on the stub axle end, so I just pushed the hubs into the bearing with no spacer. Well the hub hits the bearing retainer plate and wont turn.

2nd try, new set of bearings and used the 5mm spacer behind the 911sc hub, clearance issue is resolved. however, when I tighten down the 951 stub axle (no spacer and only about 30ft lbs), the hub wont turn.

Do I need to run a 5mm spacer on the hub, and also another 5mm spacer on the stub axle in this configuration? I am running through rear bearings like there is no tomorrow.

[0396]

Excellent read. Thanks guys.

[Mike Bellis]

I don't know if you got what you need but I have a pair (2) of the Renegade 914 to 911 CV adapters if you need them.

[Chris H.]

Thanks Mike! Really appreciate it! I think that's exactly what Bob is sending me early next week but hang on to those for just a little bit if you don't mind. I'll make sure this setup works and then Kent will probably want those (not free of course!). If not there will be a line behind him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

Plan is:

914 hub
914 stub axle
adapter
944 CV
hybrid axle

I'll post the part numbers and stuff once I get it all installed and I get a few miles and a couple of burnouts on them. Trying to get it together in time for Okteenerfest!

BTW Travis...take a look at post 17 of this:

944 stubs 911 hubs

Looks like Clay machined off some material from the later 911 hub to make it work. But also look at post 21...seems like there are a lot of variations of the 911 hub.

[TravisNeff]

Post 21 is correct in that if you use the hub without a spacer it will be more inboard, so inboard it will interfere with the bearing retainer plate.

I am going to get another set of spacers and try them on the stub axles (so 2 sets of spacers, 10mm total), Patrick MS is only a few minutes away from work. and is cheaper then a new set of bearings. Worth a shot!!

[Chris H.]

Yeah I was gonna tell you they have the spacers. Also might have some insight for you.

[jimkelly]

awesome : )

Call me in a couple of hours I have everything you need.

[Chris H.]

Did a few searches on unrelated topics and found some incomplete threads, then realized I never finished this one. Also got quite a few PMs on the subject so I thought I'd close it out. Still happy to answer questions, but at least the thread is complete.

I confirmed the issue that was causing the multiple problems was the simple fact that the 914 CVs were worn and had too much play in them. This caused them to move around too much, which would either cause the Subaru end to slip out of its sleeve (1x) or the 914 CV to wobble into a precarious position which causes the cage to crack and break. Moral of the story...if you're raising HP, check the CVs. Replace them if there is the slightest question.

Here's a comparison of good vs bad:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-SMeg6ACEk


As Chris Foley described in another CV thread, see how there is no resistance with the "bad" one? You could make it a few miles, but not too far.

As usual, Bob knew exactly what I needed. Although a new Type 1 CV would probably have been fine, Bob had these cool adapters that allowed me to use 944 CVs WITHOUT changing the hubs/stubs. Here's how:

The EARLY 944 CV joint, part # 944.331.901.00 has the same spline count as a 914 axle so it fits on the 914 axle. You can't just bolt it to the 914 hub because it is larger and has more bolts. Here's the magic part....part of the Renegade Hybrids axle upgrade kit (called "axle flanges" I think) is an adapter that lets you bolt the 914 hub to the larger 911 OR 944 CV. Basically bolts to the 914 hub, then you bolt the 944 CV joint to the other side. If you have a stock axle you will need to remove some material from the inner portion since the 944 CV is slightly thicker. Not necessary with the sway-ways I have.

Pics:



From the RH site, I THINK the arrowed part is the adapter. With the full Renegade kit you would do one on each end, so 4 total. I believe they sell them separately as well.

Here it is in the wild:



Comparison of the two axles:



This also extends the axle itself by more than an inch, which is good since the Subaru end floats unattached unlike a Porsche CV and in extreme conditions can come out of it's end which SUCKS (you with me Ross ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). To reinstall the axle I actually had to undo the shock from the trailing arm, lower it, install the axle end and raise it back up again. HIGHLY unlikely it will slip out now unless I get airborne...at which point I have other problems.