1971 Gold Metallic Project, The Turbo 1.7 Options

[messix]

your inter cooled right?

whats the intake charge temp after boost?

and have you had the heads off?

I wonder how much carbon is caked up in there?

[McMark]

Small intercooler with fans.
Intake temp says 115, but I'm not confident the IAT is scaled perfectly, so it's only a ballpark figure.
Haven't had the heads off.

Further reducing the dwell didn't do anything, but another 4 degrees off the timing did. But there's still a bit of work to do. I think I need to rescale my timing map to include higher rpm bins and maybe scale the NA portion of it.

We came in to San Francisco today driving my 06 VW Rabbit. Really puts the power of the 914 in perspective, my Rabbit feels S-L-O-W. I remembered I have the iPhone dyno app. Gonna have to try that Sunday and see what it says the car makes.

[balljoint]

Thoroughly enjoying this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[messix]

Small intercooler with fans.
Intake temp says 115, but I'm not confident the IAT is scaled perfectly, so it's only a ballpark figure.
Haven't had the heads off.

Further reducing the dwell didn't do anything, but another 4 degrees off the timing did. But there's still a bit of work to do. I think I need to rescale my timing map to include higher rpm bins and maybe scale the NA portion of it.

We came in to San Francisco today driving my 06 VW Rabbit. Really puts the power of the 914 in perspective, my Rabbit feels S-L-O-W. I remembered I have the iPhone dyno app. Gonna have to try that Sunday and see what it says the car makes.

it's really that strong?!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[McMark]

Troy, it's all the torque that really makes the difference.

Pulled more timing. Pinging seems to be under control. My next step on tuning is to optimize the mixture. It's pretty rich under boost (10:1), and I think it's sapping some power. I discovered that the TunerStudio auto-tune has a 'filter' feature. So I can auto-tune to top end, without having it fiddle with the NA section of the VE table (which I'm happy with). Later I may even try to push the timing to the edge and then pull back a couple degrees to make sure I'm getting all I can out of it.

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[jaxdream]

McMark , have posted any build specs on the 1.7 turbo engine ??? If so , could you provide a link , search doen't like 1.7 . Thanks ....

Jack

[McMark]

I have some at work I should post. I keep forgetting that this thread doesn't have any info on the engine.

[jaxdream]

I believe that there would be many interested , I sure would. Got 2 1.7s in the basement . Improving one of them would be great with a spare engine to boot .Been following this thread since I saw that engine in the Gold Member .

Jack

[McMark]

Okay, here's some engine info finally.

The base engine is a W-case 1.7, or at least started out life as one. The history of the engine is unknown and could easily have been converted to a 1911. I'll probably never know. Regardless, I haven't done a single thing to the engine itself.

The turbo is a KKK K03 knockoff that I got on eBay for ~$200. It's used by VW and Audi on their 1.6-1.8 engines and I figured it would be a good match for the engine. I knew I wanted something that came onto boost early because I wasn't planning on trying to push to stock engine redline (5500) and I wanted a driver car, not a peak HP race car.

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[McMark]

I knew I wanted a setup that didn't modify the engine in any way, and I also wanted avoid any body modifications. These two goals were the driving force behind all of my decisions. On the exhaust side, I started with the late 1.8 exhaust because a turbo doesn't care as much about flow (key words, AS MUCH). So this setup simplified the plumbing. It also allowed a reasonable attempt at 'equal length' piping. The passenger side exhaust runs just like a normal 1.8 with a 180-degree turnaround at the front of the engine. The drivers side manifold is flipped to point out the back, and then I fabricated piping to go over the shifter and under the transmission. Both pipes converge behind cylinder #3 and turn 90-degrees upward with my rough approximation of a collector/merge. The mounting flange I made from some thick steel I had laying around.

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[McMark]

The exhaust exit plumbing was much easier. I ordered up a 2.5" Hooker Header muffler and some piping and it was a straight shot. The piping runs over the axle and I welded a bracket onto the muffler to utilize the stock mounting studs on the transmission.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-419-1372778552.jpg)

[McMark]

On the intake side, I wasn't planning on running an intercooler, but I was placing an order for another project with Setrab and saw that they had a clearance on all their intercooler cores. So I picked up the smallest one for $125. So I used the stock 1.7 air filter mount pedestal and redesigned it as an intercooler mount. This also acted as a perfect conduit to get air from the PS turbo to the DS throttle body. I first mounted the intercooler to the pedestal, then designed end caps to be laser cut from aluminum (see pic with paper mockups). I love designing crazy shapes that I can bend, rather than a bunch of plates that I weld together. I was even able to design the cutouts for the round inlet/outlet pipes. The intercooler end caps are each made from a single piece of aluminum. I also designed a fan mount/plenum. I have two SPAL 4" puller fans on the back. This was one of my first aluminum welding projects. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-419-1372778541.jpg)
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[McMark]

The air cleaner is a stock 2.0 unit that I modified by taking off the 'snorkel' and welding mesh in its place. I also cut off the section that normally attaches to the 2.0 throttle body, and welded some pipe at a 45 degree angle to feed right at the turbo intake.

Turbo oiling is supplied from the oil pressure switch location. I used AN-3 plumbing and added a tee inline for two reasons. First is that it mounts my oil pressure sender unit, and secondly I brazed and drilled the outlet (to turbo) to restrict the pressure. Before this I was blowing oil past the bearings. Oil return is via a steel flange and pipe that I used AN-10 line with, and I drilled and welded a pipe into a tuna-can for the other end of the hose. There was some concern expressed that oil return should be above the oil pan. But since the original Audi/VW 1.6-1.8 engines do it this way, I figured I'd take the risk. I haven't seen a problem with this setup.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-419-1372779120.jpg)
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[monkeyboy]

Nice setup

[kevin311]

Nice setup. I like your oil return. Do you see any problems with returning to the valve cover from the position the turbo is in now? I am thinking that is where im going to mount mine and that was my original plan but draining back to the sump looks better.

Sorry for the hijack but here is the turbo I will be using, I had it on my old T1 sandrail so hopefully it should be good for the teener.
Its actually a really small T3 off of an old volvo.

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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Thanks for the inspiration!

Kevin

[r_towle]

any plans to dyno this setup to see what you can reliably make for bolt on power?

rich

[McMark]

Do you see any problems with returning to the valve cover from the position the turbo is in now?

I didn't want to drain back to the valve cover because it would make valve adjustments a PITA. Plus under hard cornering the sump empties most of its oil into the valve cover, so that may be a problem. Don't get me wrong. It probably would work just fine, but too many compromises for me.

Its actually a really small T3 off of an old volvo.

T3s are really common. What size engine are you putting it on? For a 2.0+ it's probably great, but for a 1.7 I expect it would make boost too late (IMHO).

any plans to dyno this setup to see what you can reliably make for bolt on power?

Yeah. Supposedly there is a dyno shop in Napa. Just need a few hours free to go search it out. I think it's tuned well enough to see.

[kevin311]

You're probably right on it being a little too big for my 1.7. Its a .42/.48. Im not sure of the trim.
I've had this lying around for years but at the price you got that turbo for it would be tough not to just avoid the trouble and buy one a little better suited to the engine.
And you definitely make a good point about the valve covers, I never even thought about valve adjustments... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

Thanks again and keep us posted (would love to see some video!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) )

Kevin

[McMark]

People have asked for video, but I really can't imagine what to video. It sounds just like a normal 914 and nothing moves in such a way that would show up on video.

What would you like to see?

[kevin311]

Any video with a 914 in it is worth watching! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
I was just thinking a walkaround to show the setup and maybe an in car through the gears. It would be cool to see the difference in how quickly it gets up to speed in relation to a stocker.
After seeing this thread I wish I would have done the turbo before/instead of the ITBs, but its all good fun.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)