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> 1971 Gold Metallic Project, The Turbo 1.7
jimkelly
post Oct 20 2013, 06:55 AM
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mcmark - what are your thoughts about running a turbo set up like yours - with cis ?

cis: in an effort to avoid the cost of an ECU and the technology curve involved.

like nein14's car (pic below).

I assume the computer interface of MS and similar ECU, has lots of benefit.

I agree too with sirandy, most won't want to open their engines up, though most should, but then there is the cost of head and cylinder work, and more.

I think you have gotten closer than ever before to having an answer to the question "what is the best, low cost, bolt on power increase option?"


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nein14
post Oct 20 2013, 12:17 PM
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It's been 10 yrs since I got the turbo from Evil Ed who was the first to think outside the box Kudos to Ed!!

That being said I made a lot of performance upgrades to improve the original , upgraded larger injectors quicker spooling K26 , cold air intake, 930 WRU, etc.

IMHO it has been very reliable (knock on wood )for power it is the most bang for the buck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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jimkelly
post Oct 20 2013, 02:59 PM
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two other major out-of-the-box thinker besides evil ed (whose engine I believe is running on nickies $$$) and mcmark - are okieflyr and scotty914

okieflyer's car is ground breaking - vw eng and trans and turbo ...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=85025&hl=

and scotty914 for breaking new ground years ago by installing a suby in a 914.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=34447&hl=

things are never boring around here with you guys constantly coming up with new wild assed ideas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

lastly, the excellence article about nein14's car is in my blog.
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McMark
post Oct 26 2013, 11:06 PM
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BOOOOOOOO!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-419-1382833999_thumb.jpg)
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JStroud
post Oct 27 2013, 12:31 AM
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That sucks !!!!!!



Jeff
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Chris Pincetich
post Nov 8 2013, 12:55 PM
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What's new w this turbo project? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Do you need a different 914 to drop the engine into for additional testing? I can help.
Bummer about the big dent in the front there. That dent shouldn't keep ya off the road entirely.
This was one of my favorite threads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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McMark
post Nov 8 2013, 04:36 PM
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Fixed the hood. Pics on Sunday. Other than that, just driving it and working on the 2.4 six that will eventually go in. I'll also be starting on a new base engine for the 1.7 turbo, which will end up in my Blue Car.
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McMark
post Nov 10 2013, 12:34 PM
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All fixed up. The hood is a crappy one I had laying around. It was stripped of paint already, so I just waxed it to keep it from rusting terribly. Trying to focus on just keeping this car drivable (versus pretty), because I really should be working on getting the blue/black car finished up and ready for paint and reassembly.


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ConeDodger
post Nov 10 2013, 02:00 PM
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Like... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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McMark
post Nov 20 2013, 03:42 PM
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Finally joined the ranks of GoPro owners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SlmtzcFKk
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bulitt
post Nov 20 2013, 04:21 PM
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I guess the torque band is broader in higher gears with the turbo?
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jimkelly
post Nov 20 2013, 04:32 PM
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that video hit the spot : )

next time, dry day, 50% more speed : )

treacherous road on a rainy day, very similar to mountain roads in japan, though they become one lane in many spots, got to be prepared to stop. the convex mirrors they strategically place on curves helps a lot.
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ConeDodger
post Nov 20 2013, 04:41 PM
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Oakville Grade? Mayacamus mountain range? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)
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McMark
post Nov 20 2013, 06:04 PM
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Just a little road right behind the shop. My usual test drive run, although there are cops on it more frequently than you would expect.

I'll be taking some more video this weekend at the autocross.
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r_towle
post Nov 20 2013, 06:08 PM
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Is that a laptop bolted to a bracket out of your ashtray?

And it's nice to see your wipers are worse than mine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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rick 918-S
post Nov 20 2013, 06:16 PM
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We have no roads like that around here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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McMark
post Nov 20 2013, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 20 2013, 04:16 PM) *

We have no roads like that around here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

You need to change your 'here'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Mike Bellis
post Nov 20 2013, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE(McMark @ Nov 20 2013, 01:42 PM) *

Finally joined the ranks of GoPro owners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)


Me too! Just bought one. I'm afraid to drive mine in the rain... Too much power now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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jimkelly
post Nov 29 2013, 09:06 AM
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obviously CIS works with a turboed type4.

since a compete set of CIS parts is often less than $500, what is the downside to using CIS vs MS/Link/SDS/Haltech etc?

the upside is a cost saving of $1500 or so it seems to me and no computer to learn/program.

what is so nice about 1.7's and even 1.8's is they are often less than $500.

>> I also wonder how nice it might be to have a suby trans (around $500 + cost of conversion kit) behind a turboed type4 regardless of how spark and fuel is achieved.

with power comparable to a 2270 which I THINK runs about $7k in kit form, a turbo 1.7L or 1.8L with CIS (or even EFI) , is the poor man's cheaper power.

here's a recent ECC 2013 video of CIS on a type4, no turbo yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (type47)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRLyDnp7G_0
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mikesmith
post Nov 29 2013, 12:11 PM
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The 'downside' is that you miss out on the clever parts of the more advanced systems. They have lots more inputs, and they have a concept of time and history, so they can make decisions based on more information.

CIS/K-jet thinks purely instantaneously; it looks at its inputs (airflow, air density, engine temperature, throttle position) and says "this much fuel". The relationship of the fuel flow to these inputs is not (easily) adjustable, nor is it particularly complex (due to how the sensing is translated into flow adjustment).

If your motor's characteristics match those that the system was designed for, then the system will work as well as it was designed to. If it doesn't, then either you settle for the mismatch, you adjust the few things that are adjustable to try to reduce the error, or you start swapping springs and machining components in an attempt to adjust the 'computation' that the analog system is doing.


By contrast, a software-driven system like MS exposes all this computation in a (relatively) easy-to-adjust format, and it adds additional capabilities that aren't present in the earlier systems. It's designed with the understanding that the ideal relationship between the various sensor readings and fuel flow is not linear, and depends on not just instantaneous inputs but also history (throttle opening rate, accel vs. decel, etc).


To put it in soundbite terms; CIS is 'simpler' because it offers you very little opportunity to fix things that may be wrong with your fuelling.
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