1971 Gold Metallic Project, The Turbo 1.7 Options

[McMark]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) CIS is fantastic in its simplicity, but that also makes it nearly impossible to tune. So while I admire CIS, I can't think of it as anything more than a kludge install. It may run, but it will never really be right. At least not as 'right' as I can get my MS.

[rohar]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) CIS is fantastic in its simplicity, but that also makes it nearly impossible to tune. So while I admire CIS, I can't think of it as anything more than a kludge install. It may run, but it will never really be right. At least not as 'right' as I can get my MS.

I'll second that!

After running a CIS turbo water cooled 1.8, you learn a lot. My perspective: comparing CIS to even MegaSquirt is like comparing "Look what I got away with" to "look what I designed". It can be done, but it's very old school technology. The tribal knowledge is disappearing very quickly as very few of us do it any more. I haven't touched CIS in almost 15 years. I'm sure I've forgotten all my tricks. Beyond that, to get it really right, you need a bunch of hard to find trick parts. By the time you're done, you'll end up paying as much if not more than an MS install.

That said, something about a fully mechanical open loop system that works well brings a HUGE cool factor.

[McMark]

Did a few things that I wanted to document here.

1. Resealed the back window. No more rattles! Some DAPO had shoved every bit of paper and foam imaginable back there to try and stop the rattle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

2. Pulled the water injection setup. I didn't feel any difference and in the mean time was able to tune out the pinging. The water injection may have been too small, but I realized that keeping a container of water in the car was not something that I wanted. Now the pump is repurposed as a water pump for my water-cooled TIG torch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

3. Got new tires to replace the 10+ year old tires that were on there. I recently went to an autocross, so I had performance stuck in my head. So I got all excited when I saw Falken made their ZE-912 tire in a 205-40-16. Got these ordered and installed and then immediately remembered that I don't like how a 914 looks with small circumference tires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) And then I drove it and remembered that I don't like how small tires change the cruising RPM. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) So these will come off ASAP (probably after winter) and I'll get something back in the 205-50-16 which is really close to the stock tire size.

4. I had been using an old Odyssey compact battery that I had left over from a project (Hi Rob!), but as winter started setting in the cold morning pretty much killed the battery. I remembered why we pulled it out in the first place. Cold cranking was pretty much nonexistent and I didn't realize how weak it was overall since it was able to start the car when warm. But I got a new Optima and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) now the motor cranks!

5. Finally, while the tires were being replaced I was poking around under there and realized I had forgotten this car has a BIG front sway bar and some sort of firmer rear springs. I thought it handled better than stock, but now I know why. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[ConeDodger]

Did a few things that I wanted to document here.

1. Resealed the back window. No more rattles! Some DAPO had shoved every bit of paper and foam imaginable back there to try and stop the rattle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

2. Pulled the water injection setup. I didn't feel any difference and in the mean time was able to tune out the pinging. The water injection may have been too small, but I realized that keeping a container of water in the car was not something that I wanted. Now the pump is repurposed as a water pump for my water-cooled TIG torch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

3. Got new tires to replace the 10+ year old tires that were on there. I recently went to an autocross, so I had performance stuck in my head. So I got all excited when I saw Falken made their ZE-912 tire in a 205-40-16. Got these ordered and installed and then immediately remembered that I don't like how a 914 looks with small circumference tires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) And then I drove it and remembered that I don't like how small tires change the cruising RPM. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) So these will come off ASAP (probably after winter) and I'll get something back in the 205-50-16 which is really close to the stock tire size.

4. I had been using an old Odyssey compact battery that I had left over from a project (Hi Rob!), but as winter started setting in the cold morning pretty much killed the battery. I remembered why we pulled it out in the first place. Cold cranking was pretty much nonexistent and I didn't realize how weak it was overall since it was able to start the car when warm. But I got a new Optima and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) now the motor cranks!

5. Finally, while the tires were being replaced I was poking around under there and realized I had forgotten this car has a BIG front sway bar and some sort of firmer rear springs. I thought it handled better than stock, but now I know why. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yup, Neat idea reducing the weight but in the real world where my car lives, I need it to start all the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[jimkelly]

I know you don't need to pass emissions in CA for cars 1975 and older.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/smog-chec...s-Old-and-Newer

but I wonder how it would do?

if it tested high, could the numbers be brought down via the MAP alone?

in Delaware my 1972 needs to be under 600 for HC and under 6.0 for CO, regardless of engine in it.

I found a local shop that tuned my, carbureted V8 car, to pass, they had a sniffer, charged $75 at that time.

[jimkelly]

a 1.7, that runs like a $10k 2270 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

1.7L engine $300+-
K03 turbo $200+-
custom exhaust $500+-
megasquirt $645
.. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasqu...bled-p-435.html
intercooler and plumbing $?
bits and pieces $?
labor $?

[914_teener]

I know you don't need to pass emissions in CA for cars 1975 and older.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/smog-chec...s-Old-and-Newer

but I wonder how it would do?

if it tested high, could the numbers be brought down via the MAP alone?

in Delaware my 1972 needs to be under 600 for HC and under 6.0 for CO, regardless of engine in it.

I found a local shop that tuned my, carbureted V8 car, to pass, they had a sniffer, charged $75 at that time.

Sort of........

[McMark]

Driving it every day. Installed a side mirror today. Working on building customized heater boxes, but not ready to post pics quite yet. Still have to build the driver's side.

[jimkelly]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) for heater boxes update : )

[McMark]

I build a center box for an 8" subwoofer a few month ago. Finally got around to sanding and painting it. To complete the system, I got a four channel amp (1xLeft, 1xRight, 2xSub) and tucked it up under the dash. Then I got a bluetooth adapter for the amp. So no 'radio'/headunit. Sounds really good, unless you're used to a car with bigger subs. The same way a 2270 feels fast unless you normally drive a 3.6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[ConeDodger]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

[CptTripps]

I've seen/heard this in person. It's flat-out awesome.

Mark: I thought it was a 6" sub? You gave me shit about wanting to put an 8" in between. Is this the same one, or did you switch it out?

[McMark]

Oh yeah. Thanks for reminding me.

8" subs are dumb, get a 6" like me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[jimkelly]

mark - you are using your crank sensor kit with the microsquirt on this turbo set up, correct? you are feeding spark voltage thru a distributor?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=97550

looks like i'll need a, microsquirt $375, tps, iat, 4 ls1 coils at $20ea, gm map $64, and mcmarks crank wheel, ebay turbo $150, etc etc

http://www.useasydocs.com/quickstart.htm

thanks,
jim

[Mueller]

Just finished reading this entire thread instead of programming like I am supposed to be doing...great progress and results Mark....now to get back into the shop and make some chips!

[Chris Pincetich]

Did heater boxes ever get built? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[McMark]

One of two, but it's not incredibly effective. Now I have too many projects to take a day and work on my own stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[McMark]

Couple updates...

I got three cheap thermocouple temp gauges and ran them int the intake track. One is at the air filter, one is after the turbo and on is after the intercooler. It's been cold (no heat) so I haven't done a ton of driving, but one my hour test drive I got the after turbo temp up to 80C/175F. But after the intercooler it was back down to about 55C/131F (intake temps 50C/122F). We'll see how things look in the warmer temps of spring and summer, but I'm pretty psyched to actually quantify that my intercooler is working well.

I also had a growing feeling that there was a boost leak and thought my blow off valve was wearing out. The Bosch valve I'm using is often thought of as crappy. But through a LOT of searching a realized that the valve is very often installed backwards, and mine was as well. I could never understand why I was only seeing about 8psi of boost since the turbo is supposed to make a lot more. With the BOV installed backwards there was only an 8psi spring holding the valve shut. So above that the BOV was opening and bleeding pressure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) I flipped it today, but I haven't test driven it yet. My laptop was dead and I want numbers when I go out. And my positive battery cable connection is flaky, so I need to fix that as well.

I'll report back tomorrow and let you know if I blow something up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Chris Pincetich]

Great find - MORE BOOST! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Has anybody paid you to make another TIV turbo yet?
I am saving my money for another visit! My 914 is running good, better after a TPS tweak, but not 100% perfect.

[rhodyguy]

A revision of the the map in post #131 should be interesting.