turn signal help please, for the electically in-experienced.. Options

[MrHyde]

Background:
The PO of my 73' 2.0L said that he never actually drove the car. He picked it up to restore and then got more involved with his MG's ( he has a sweet MGB with a mustang drivetrain in it , and a couple more under covers) .. anyways.. the turn signals dont work.. in the glove box i found an extra relay socket, and a 4 prong relay... hanging out under the fuse board is another of the same socket I found in the glove box.. I'm assuming that some PO wired this thing in to get the turn signals working.. the signal lights all come on when I turn the headlights on ( tail lights AND all the turn signals ) when fliping the turn signal switch, nothing happens.. no dash lights.. no flashing...

question...
I've never really needed to use a multimeter before, so i'm totally inexperienced with this.. I want to know how to find out if this socket is infact for the turn signals ( so I can just get a turn signal relay ) or find out where to check the wiring with the multimeter to see where the disconnect is happening..


Since My shoulder is out of commission right now, I cant do any heavy work at all, but testing a circut with a multimeter is doable. I've downloaded a couple wiring diagrams, but it all looks a bit greek to me right now...

Thanks in advance for the help !

[pcar916]

Before attacking relays do the natural thing and hit the basics.

1. Check fuses
2. Remove all of the lenses and bulbs and clean all contacts and sockets of rust and corrosion.
3. Look at the wiring and make sure there is no corrosion in the connectors.
4. Check and verify all grounds (brown wires bolted to the car body).
5. Are the battery connections corrosion-free?

If everything works you're done. If not, once you've done all of the above carefully, then you're ready to attack wiring, relays, and switches.

Red wires: 12v, always hot
Red wires w/white stripe: 12v when the ignition switch is on
Brown wires: ground

Get the Haynes manual and the factory manuals as well for your car and use them as a map.

Three major functions of your multimeter: Power (volts) resistance (Ohms) and continuity (ohms or a tone).

1. You'll check for power at wires supposed to be at positive voltage (12v in this car)
2. You'll check for continuity often. I.e. whether a wire is unboken from one place to another. One meter-lead on one end of the wire and the other lead on the other end of the wire. If you put the meter on "tone" mode, it'll beep if the wire is "continuous". In other words in one piece with no breaks. It's the same tone you'll hear if you touch the meter's probes to one another.

There are probably videos on YouTube or any number of other sites on how to use your meter. Practice makes perfect.

Good luck!

[windforfun]

Do you know basic electricity? Ohm's law? Can you read a schematic?

[MrHyde]

I can follow the schematic as in " this goes to here, then here" and ground symbols, switch symbols... most others I'm not sure... but its also where some components are... for example...the turn signal diagram I have has the power coming from the battery, to fuse 9 and 11.. then to a 4way switch.. whats that ? this is before it gets to the turn signal switch and teh flasher relay..

[type47]

I have has the power coming from the battery, to fuse 9 and 11.. then to a 4way switch.. whats that ? this is before it gets to the turn signal switch and teh flasher relay..

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/parts/Elec...lectric_74D.jpg

S9 is on track 51 in the above diagram. What is the letter identification of the "4way switch"?

[MrHyde]

this is the diagram I'm going off of

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-...-1287198891.jpg

[pcar916]

That drawing screwed me up one time. It may be for an earlier car, I didn't stop to figure that out. Use the factory drawings to identify parts and paths.

Look for E2 (turn signal switch), E3 (emergency flasher switch), and J1 (Combination relay for both circuits.



Follow those wires above the fuse panel to the relay. The turn signal switch is on the steering column of course, and the hazard switch is on the dash.

Let us know!

[MrHyde]

It says right on it 1970-1973, Mines a '73... hmm the one you posted up is more confusing to me..lol.. i see E2.. that makes sense to me... one switch ( turn signal stalk) going to the 4 turn signal lights... makes sense...
E3 makes sense... which leads me to J1 thats the signal relay right ?
hmm when i turn the headlights on.. ( or jsut marker lights.) both the break lights, front marker lights, and all the turn signals turn on solid..

[MrHyde]

more info an questions...

when I turn the headlights on... the hazard light switch on the dash lights up.. when I pull that switch, the light goes out, but the hazard lights do not turn on. when i shut off the switch , the light ( slowly) on the switch comes back on..

question... with the marker lights turn on with the headlight circut with the flasher relay unpluged ?

[76-914]

I wish that I could tell you how many hours I spent familiarizing myself with those diagrams. Mine is a 75-76 so I had to learn to read a flow chart. It's the only thing available. You mentioned that it appeared the PO might have done some wiring. These cars don't take kindly to wire arounds by us shade tree mechanics. I pulled this gob of extraneous wiring from under my dash then proceeded to reconnect all of wires to their respective locations. It was only then that I could begin a proper diagnosis. And as usual, it was a grounding issue, a relay, a bad connection at a thimble on the relay board and one headlight switch (thx Ron). Everytime I hit a snag I would post here and eventually I had a running car, thanks to everyone here. If you stumble, we'll pick you back up. BTW, this could take a few weeks!

[MrHyde]

"this could take a couple weeks"... Times is all i got right now... with my shoulder bugger'd up I cant do any of the bigger tasks.. soo looking at the wiring is it... I'm going to post a pic of the back of my fuse panel.. you will be able to see the relay socket hanging out and the mnissing relay on the board i'm not sure what it is for... actually I dont know what any of those relays are for becuase it looks different than the diagrams i've found... the socket for the flasher relay is wired rigth into the main harness and I'd have to pull off the lower dash to get at it and I dont think i can do that just yet (shoulder)... i'll go take a pic now.. brb..

[MrHyde]

here's teh pic.. dont mind the cheezy speake in there.. its going...

so you can see the socket for the flasher relay ( i'm assuming) hanging down... i dont know what relay does what here.. does someone know ?

[pcar916]

Things unplugged may create a "floating ground" with bizarre results so I don't know what would happen. I had a situation last month where a disconnected ground cable at one of the rear lamps caused very weird lighting when I tried the turn signals and a brake light oddness too.

These would change from moment to moment too, or I'd give you a better description. Point is that plugging in the ground wire fixed everything.

You're gonna have to just verify the wiring of both circuits at the bulbs (i.e. everything's plugged in and not corroded) and then underneath the dash.

Here's a sketch of the turn signal plug at the base of the steering column, just in case you need it. Not pretty but it'll do.

[pcar916]

Let the wire colors take you to all devices. Look at the factory diagrams, find the wire colors that go to the devices you want and follow the wires to there destination. It'll take some time for you to get used to it. Expect it. One more thing.

If your shoulder it screwed up then

1. take the seat out and the steering wheel off
2. Put a big blanket on the floorboard

Under the dash will be more comfortable... and ignore the empty socket on the fuse panel unless the wire color points to one in the circuits you have to work on.

[MrHyde]

here is s pic of the relay the PO gave me, he said he took it out of that hanging socket to go find a new relay, but its not an " off the shelf " item so he gave up.. lol.. I'm 99% sure this is the flasher relay

[pcar916]

Look under the dash above where the fuse panel attaches. The hazard relay is usually not on the fuse panel itself. Wire colors to J-1 on the drawing above are your key.

[MrHyde]

I looked up under where teh fuse panel is mounted.. I can see the switched on the dash but other than that i just see some wires.. no relays, etc.

[DJKnut]

MrHyde... I've found that in cars, when lights seem to act very strangely.. like yours are doing... it's very often due to bad grounds... a valid power source will back feed through other bulbs to find a way home, and light up everything it passes through.. at least partly..!! On the flow diagram, at the bottom, is the ground connection... with a circled number... the index for those diagrams will tell you where that ground number is actually located... most of these are steel tabs welded to the body, and often rust and loose connection... track your locations down and clean them up, and see if things act any differently.... That may eliminate some of the confusion, and show you where the true problem is... Remember, the flasher function responds to load so if you don't have good bulb connections they won't even try to work... Pull lenses and clean bulb sockets.. you could even make up a jumper wire to the battery (or any battery..) to verify that each lamp-socket is connecting and working properly... VW wiring is really pretty good ( especially when compared to British cars..!!) and most of my problems have ended up being connections... Good luck!! Dave

[MrHyde]

thank DJKnut ! I have a diagram I printed from somewhere showing all teh ground locations.. Ill look for those tooo...

I checked the colours of the wiring coming out of that hanging socket.. its definitely J1... one red, one brown, one blue with shite stripe and 2 black with green and white stripes

[type47]

so you can see the socket for the flasher relay ( i'm assuming) hanging down... i dont know what relay does what here.. does someone know ?

According to the workshop manual section 3.6-2/1, a figure there identifies the relays, Left to Right as:

Buzzer, Aux driving lights (fog lights), fresh air fan (the one in the cowl) and hand dimmer (high-low headlight dimmer). No ID on the empty socket though. On my '73, the flasher relay is behind the dash with the little "tit" on the socket going through a hole in the dash so the flasher relay is back up under with the bodies of the headlight/emergency and fog light switches. I bet the reason the flasher socket is out is because it's so hard to mount the tit in the hole; you have to twist the socket tit while trying to push it in the hole which is very difficult to do.