WhO's THE BEST, rust remover/ encapsulator Options

[mrgjones]

Alright. There are a lot of products on the market that promise to remove rust and prevent it from coming back. From reading the threads it seems the opinions on this forum are as varied as the products themselves. This thread is about making a convincing argument... or a ludicrous allegation, which ever you find appropriate. Horror stories are welcome but please limit yourselves to the chemical rust abatement theme already established. For you slow starters, here is your motivation.

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[sww914]

Rust Mort.

[PeeGreen 914]

I believe Ospho is one of the best out there. Amazing stuff.

[Bartlett 914]

Rust Bullet....NOT

[mrgjones]

I believe Ospho is one of the best out there. Amazing stuff.

Is this based on other one-step products out there or would you say it's better than the three-step products as well?

[mrgjones]

Rust Bullet....NOT

Rust bullet has a pretty convincing commerical so this is good to know. Can you share a bit of why you hate it?

[mrgjones]

Rust Mort.

Rust Mort. I've never heard of it so I looked it up. It's an acid based product but I didn't learn much more. Is this a one-step or a three-step? It seems that there should be some sort of neutralizer to prevent acid induced corrosion.

[PeeGreen 914]

Rust mort is good but you have to rinse it well. The whole rinsing part is a pain.

Ospho is a one step and go product that works very well. Both of these products I would use and recomend.

[ArtechnikA]

For light rust, tin snips.
For heavy rust, plasma cutter.
For extensive light rust, acid dip.

'rust conversion' is one thing, and the phosphoric acid stuff seems to be pretty good.

The 'encapsulation' products are starting to scare me. They're based on the premise that the coating will -never- crack, that you missed not even a pinhole of coverage, and that you were able to fully coat both sides. And that if you can't see the rust, you can pretend it's not there...

They're also hard to get off when other repair or modification is desired.

You think we have rust problems? (We do...) But the 356 guys have been fighting it longer than we have - their steel was certainly no better, the factory corrosion treatment similarly nonexistent, and they had a 20-year head start. I don't believe any of the prominent 356 restoration guys use anything like an encapsulation product.

[underthetire]

Loctite Extend. Been using it for years. But i agree with the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) method first.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/7/24/s_tr...Neutralizer.htm

[dlestep]

...I took my body down to metal and treated it with Phospho four years ago, and still no rust on any of the treated surfaces.
It leaves the surface a medium grey.
The car has been on jack stands in the garage which is vented to outside air....I live in South East Florida, so the humidity ranges from 80 to 100% !
I have also used Metal Ready, after removing all rust physically. I have used it also after I have cut out pitted areas and replaced with clean metal.
I pefer to Phospho and epoxy primer over clean metal in preparation to get maximum delay in rust. Noticed I said "...maximum delay."
I trust rust converter, like I trust the curing properties of bear shit smeared over a wound.
There are better people and methods...I would ask Scotty B, if I were you. He massages a larger cross section of cars than any of us.

[ArtechnikA]

I trust rust converter, like I trust the curing properties of bear shit smeared over a wound.

Good point - there are many interpretations of the phrase 'rust convertor.'

When I wrote my initial response, I used it in the sense of 'reduction chemical reaction' which is what the acid products do - chemically replace iron oxide with something else. (Reduction is the opposite of oxidation.) So you're using the magic of chemistry to get the oxygen out of iron oxide.

The phosphoric acid stuff liberates the oxygen and in turn promotes the formation of iron phosphate, in addition to the zinc (an excellent corrosion inhibitor) and/or manganese phosphates present in the chemical. (Parkerizing, a large-scale rust-inhibition process, uses basically this principle.)

So that's what -I- mean when I talk about a 'convertor.'

There's a bunch of Magick Shytte products that like to call themselves 'convertors' and I agree when Dave on his assessment of their curative properties. They basically 'convert' the rust from rust you can see to rust you can't see. For at least as long as the product warranty, the terms of which seem to depend on all manner of impossible-to-attain conditions involving the dark of the moon, eye of newt, and hair of frog...

[Bartlett 914]

Rust Bullet....NOT

Rust bullet has a pretty convincing commerical so this is good to know. Can you share a bit of why you hate it?

I have used it with some success but... I used some on a part of my car and in no time the rust returned. A friend used it for a mount for a generator on a truck. Total rust in less then six months. This was clean new steel.

I have had some good results with Chassis saver. I have used less than 1 quart so I cannot really endorse it.

[enderw88]

I used Eastwood Rust Encapsulator on the steel frame of my SuperStalker. I was very careful about prep and application, following the guidelines to the letter. It chipped terribly after less than a year. I was so bad I completely disassembled the car to have the frame powder coated. I won't make that mistake again.

[Ductech]

I used Eastwood Rust Encapsulator on the steel frame of my SuperStalker. I was very careful about prep and application, following the guidelines to the letter. It chipped terribly after less than a year. I was so bad I completely disassembled the car to have the frame powder coated. I won't make that mistake again.

That must be nerve racking to have to disassemble a car all over again.... and then to powder coat that would be a huge project i would think. I hated getting powder coated parts from powder coaters, when i worked at a bike dealership. The powder coaters were usually monkeys about powder coating in every bolt hole as to make installation a nightmare of scraping powder coat of seating surfaces and chasing threads

How much do suspect powdercoating would cost.... not including your labor

[Madswede]

I wonder if anyone has done a large-scale electrolytic rust removal? In my mind that would be the best way if rust is pervasive but not so bad as to warrant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

I mean it obviously will leave whatever steel left that is not iron oxide behind, so any pitting would be very evident afterwards. Could be more cost-effective than you'd think, everything you need is very cheap.

Hmm, except for ... what to put the body in? I guess it wouldn't be too cost-effective considering the largish plastic pool you're going to need! It might be doable with only 4' depth, do half the body one way then the other ... obviously some sort of rotisserie or other means of suspending the body in the solution would be required.

I say borrow a friend's pool and swingset when they're outta town... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

- Nelson

[silver74insocal]

anyone have experience with naval jelly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[enderw88]

I used Eastwood Rust Encapsulator on the steel frame of my SuperStalker. I was very careful about prep and application, following the guidelines to the letter. It chipped terribly after less than a year. I was so bad I completely disassembled the car to have the frame powder coated. I won't make that mistake again.

That must be nerve racking to have to disassemble a car all over again.... and then to powder coat that would be a huge project i would think. I hated getting powder coated parts from powder coaters, when i worked at a bike dealership. The powder coaters were usually monkeys about powder coating in every bolt hole as to make installation a nightmare of scraping powder coat of seating surfaces and chasing threads

How much do suspect powdercoating would cost.... not including your labor

Well, it wasn't great, but I do enjoy building. Now that it's done (again) it is going on the market so I can pay for my next project, a 914! I actually have a VERY competent powder coater very nearby. Did the entire frame and a bunch of smaller components for $750. Required NO extra labor to clean anything. He's called "Perfection Powder Coating" and he means it!.

[mrgjones]

I wonder if anyone has done a large-scale electrolytic rust removal? In my mind that would be the best way if rust is pervasive but not so bad as to warrant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)



- Nelson

Electrolytic rust removal is a bad idea for anything structural. The process causes absorption of hydrogen which increases the brittleness of the steel. The only way to reverse this would be to bake the entire frame at a very high temp for several hours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Also, the process only works line of sight so it would be nearly impossible to hit all the nooks and crannies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I did see a youtube video about this guy in Australia who soaks body panels in pure molasses for a week or two then hits it with a pressure washer. He uses an old cattle trough as a basin. The result is pretty amazing.

[bigkensteele]

You think we have rust problems? (We do...) But the 356 guys have been fighting it longer than we have - their steel was certainly no better, the factory corrosion treatment similarly nonexistent, and they had a 20-year head start. I don't believe any of the prominent 356 restoration guys use anything like an encapsulation product.

There is a shop here in Cinci that does high-end 356 restorations. They had a meet and greet for PCA. One car in his shop was a really sweet 356B coupe that was very nicely restored. The owner had brought it in because there were a couple of bubbles at the bottom of the hood down near the nose. It was an NOS hood that was put on when the car was restored. He showed us where he cut away the bracing on the back, and underneath was a mess. His theory was that it was stored standing on the nose end, possibly in an unheated environment, and that the condensation/moisture had no where to go.

Now think about the inside of our longs, all of those areas that are two layers of steel and/or hollow. My guess is that there isn't a rust-free 914 in existence. I like this thread.