 Need more brakes?, What's the logical upgrade> |
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| freestone |
 Jul 6 2004, 09:53 AM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 1-September 03 From: ny Member No.: 1,102  |
Car currenrtly has a 2.7 engine and runs 914-6 brakes in back and SC up front.
How do I get a better brake feel? How do I add more stopping power, and is that necessary as I potentially upgrade the engine? Has plenty of rubber. |
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| Joe Ricard |
Jul 6 2004, 11:38 AM
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#2
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
I would think you should have all the braking you may ever need. The way I see it these cars are so lite stopping is very easy. More HP does not equal need for more brakes.
Stupid questions like what do you do with your car most. When was your last brake service. What kind of pads are you using Ans: Race car every weekend = get something bigger in the 4 piston caliper massive rotor and matching hydraulic system. (just throw more money at it as I have come to learn). |
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| freestone |
Jul 6 2004, 11:45 AM
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#3
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 1-September 03 From: ny Member No.: 1,102 |
I run the car almost exclusively on the street.
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| Andyrew |
Jul 6 2004, 11:47 AM
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#4
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,377 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California 
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If you havent got th 19mm m/c, get that.
Rebuild the calipers, get new pads.. What you have is enough. IF you wanted more, you could go 944 turbo fronts, and that would be all you would ever need. Andrew |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 6 2004, 12:16 PM
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#5
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,945 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(freestone @ Jul 6 2004, 08:53 AM) How do I get a better brake feel? How do I add more stopping power, and is that necessary as I potentially upgrade the engine? here's what i did, in that order: 19 mm master cylinder '86 carrera front brakes, vented and crossdrilled rotors, carrera calipers '87 carrera rear brakes, vented and crossdrilled rotors, carrera calipers replaced brake bias valve with a open "T" braking is perfect now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 6 2004, 12:18 PM
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#6
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,945 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
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| lapuwali |
Jul 6 2004, 02:54 PM
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#7
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743  |
As stated, the need for braking power is mostly down to car weight and available traction. If you can lock your current tires, you have enough brake power. Any more brake power, and you're simply overwhelming your tires sooner, which does nothing for stopping ability. If you can lock them repeatedly, you have enough heat capacity to avoid fade. If you find you have to press harder and harder as you repeated come to a stop from high speeds, then you need to look into better fluid, better pads, and maybe better rotors.
You asked specifically about brake feel. If the pedal doesn't feel right to you, then it's possible you have to deal with hydraulic compatibility. If the pedal is uncomfortably "long" and/or feels squishy, then you may have a master cylinder that's too small for the calipers you're using. If the pedal is wooden and hard, then you may have a master cylinder that's too large for the calipers you're using. There's a post I made awhile back on the subject you can search for. If you can't lock your tires no matter how hard you press the pedal, then I'd start with brake pads (find softer compound pads), and make sure the current pads aren't glazed or contaminated. |
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| scotty |
Jul 6 2004, 03:57 PM
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#8
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The Fun Never Stops Group: Members Posts: 773 Joined: 20-May 03 From: Portland. Oregon (SW) Member No.: 718 Region Association: None |
If you haven't replaced the rear proportioning valve, that's probably the problem... I have a 19mm MC , SC brakes up front, and have replaced the valve with a "t" -- this setup transforms the brakes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| TimT |
Jul 6 2004, 04:07 PM
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#9
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
My car is set up like Andy's now
QUOTE 19 mm master cylinder '86 carrera front brakes, vented and crossdrilled rotors, carrera calipers '87 carrera rear brakes, vented and crossdrilled rotors, carrera calipers replaced brake bias valve with a open "T" except that I have an adjustable bias valve for the rears. Its taken me awhile but I think I have the front/rear balanced to a point that I can brake deep into a corner.. So since I have this more than adequate braking system sorted what would any normal person do? Leave it alone!!! So Im installing the following: 944 Turbo Front calipers 944 Turbo rear calipers 23mm master cylinder 944T front drilled rotors Carrera rear rotors and a spacer to move out the front hubs so the discs will clear.. The calipers are being modified by Doug Arnao (VCI) to a true radial mount.. So now I get to climd the whole brake learning curve all over again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) |
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| anthony |
Jul 6 2004, 04:42 PM
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#10
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2270 club Group: Benefactors Posts: 3,107 Joined: 1-February 03 From: SF Bay Area, CA Member No.: 218 |
Sometimes I think people confuse the pedal pressure required to stop a 914 with the braking system being inadequate. We don't have power assisted brakes in these cars. My 914 requires quite a bit more pedal pressure than my newer VW to make it stop on a dime. And as others have suggested, if the pads and rotors are old and glazed, then having the rotors surfaced, getting new pads, and bleeding the system works wonders.
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| Jeroen |
Jul 6 2004, 08:42 PM
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#11
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
Bigger brakes won't add stopping power
The modulation will be different and give you the feel of more braking power, but your actual braking distance will be the same You only need bigger brakes when you suffer from a fading pedal (brakes overheating) I don't think you'll run into that problem with your current brakes on the street... cheers, Jeroen |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 6 2004, 09:00 PM
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#12
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,945 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Jeroen @ Jul 6 2004, 07:42 PM) but your actual braking distance will be the same this is NOT entirely true, of course ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy |
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| Aaron Cox |
Jul 6 2004, 09:46 PM
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#13
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
i have an interesting brake issue.
rebuilt m calipers up front, stock / 4 rears , pads from pelican. i just put falken azenis sticky stick tires on, and can no longer lock up the brakes easily.... car grips the road like a mofo on crack....but stopping fees...inadequate <_< |
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| SirAndy |
Jul 6 2004, 09:48 PM
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#14
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,945 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(acox914 @ Jul 6 2004, 08:46 PM) car grips the road like a mofo on crack....but stopping fees...inadequate <_< welcome to the world of sticky tires! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) now you need bigger brakes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy |
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| Aaron Cox |
Jul 6 2004, 09:50 PM
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#15
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
lol...huge difference betwwen 165 bike tires.
i JUST upgraded to M calipers.... volvo 240 anyone? |
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| skline |
Jul 6 2004, 10:34 PM
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#16
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
The Volvo pad is almost twice the size of the M caliper. I was a little shocked to see how small the M caliper pads actually are. What is the big deal with the M calipers? And I hear the S caliper is smaller yet with smaller pads. In fact, the 320i pads are even bigger than the M ,
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| Aaron Cox |
Jul 6 2004, 10:55 PM
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#17
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
well if only 2/3 of the volvo pad even touches the rotor....which is better? how do you fix that?
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| skline |
Jul 6 2004, 11:04 PM
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#18
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
That is an exageration, there is only about 1/4 inch overhand, not even close to 2/3rds.
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| DrifterJay |
Jul 6 2004, 11:05 PM
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#19
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I break stuff... Group: Members Posts: 1,034 Joined: 25-May 03 From: Oceanside, California Member No.: 737 Region Association: None |
I thought you fixed that?
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| skline |
Jul 6 2004, 11:18 PM
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#20
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
enough to run it like it is for now.
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