1970 914-6 Bottom Paint Question? Options

[racerbvd]

I got a big question on our 914-6, on the bottom, mine has been painted a different color (from the factory) and undercoated:confused:
My paint guy says that he finds no traces of Blue on the bottom and that the color & under coating appear to have been applied from the factory..
, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/forums.pelicanparts.com-226-1320700084.1.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/forums.pelicanparts.com-226-1320700084.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/forums.pelicanparts.com-226-1320700085.3.jpg)
This is a Concours Restoration, so it has to be correct, so on one hand I'm thinking just Paint the bottom the matching Blue, but on the other hand, Porsche was also known to sometimes spray the bottoms with what ever was left in the Spray gun and I know of one collector who has a few 914-6s, like mine, both 70s and both OEM, yet one of his 1970s Six's has no coating; another '70 does:confused:
I need to figure this out ASAP as the car is ready for Paint..
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/forums.pelicanparts.com-226-1320700085.4.jpg)

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

I have no hard core proof, but, I have always understood that what we typically refer to as "undercoating" was applied at the port-of-entry, or at the dealership. I would think this application would be more prevalent for Atlantic seaboard, Northeast, or Midwest bound autos.

As far as the bottom of the pan is concerned, I would also assume that the original body color would be what was to be expected. Though my 914 is a /4, with a build date of January 1970, the top and bottom of the pan were painted in the body color paint.

Since all 914 bodies originated from the Karmann plant in Osnabruck, I can't imagine /4s and /6s were painted differently.

The attached photo shows "undercoating" giving way to pale yellow (body color) paint, giving way to white (factory primer?), giving way to the rust repair.

[Sarastro]

I am the second owner of a 1970 914-6 originally purchased in Germany (no treatment by the importer). This car has its original paint and is completely undercoated in black. I cannot say what color is under the black undercoat.

It is my understanding that the 6´s were manufactured in a completely different plant (a 911 plant) than were the 4´s which were manufactured in a VW plant. The 4´s were painted entirely in one color, including the wheel wells, trunks and engine compartments. It is very possible, though I have no confirmation, that the 6´s were not painted the same as the 4´s.

If I were to attempt an original restoration of a 6, I should absolutely paint the underbody, wheel wells, and the area around the gas tank black to include a rather thick undercoating.

[racerbvd]

I think because it being metallic 2 stage in 1970 they didn't spray the chassis 100% like they did in later years, Like Andy say there is usaully the grey and then body color and then the black light pebble black undercoat, The dealer sprayed undercoat is heavy and globby.
All the non metalic -6's I have delt with are sprayed 99% over the beige, and then have the black pebbly undercoat on top. Later cars are painted 100% color and then undercoated and some not. Just my observations

Your floor pan black pebble undercoat is like the many -6's I have owned.

Thanks, this makes the most sense, and we have found out that this is and has been the number 1 controversy at Porsche Concours, for the past 25 years, since Porsche & VOA had an agreement NOT to undercoat, & Porsche didn't offer it until 1972, yet, there are still cars like mine, that clearly were coated BEFORE they got to the ports (some dealers in the US had arrangements to have the cars coated upon reaching the ports, different vendors, some really good, some not. We researched this, talking to one of the top Porsche restorers, and the #1 guy according to PCA, but with NO factory documentation, and most of the Porsche people who were involved at that level either have retired or passed on:( it doesn't look like it will ever be resolved..
So looks like we will go with a shiny, bottom...

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

It is my understanding that the 6´s were manufactured in a completely different plant (a 911 plant) than were the 4´s which were manufactured in a VW plant.

I believe all 914 bodies (chassis if you like) originated at the Karmann plant in Osnabruck. The bodies that were to be fitted as /6s were shipped to Stuttgart for the installation of 6 cylinder-specific equipment.

Paul

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

This pic has been seen on this Forum before, but it worth viewing again in this threads' context.

Note that the wheel wells are body color. This is how I understand Stuttgart received the bodies from Karmann, the body was all trimmed out with Zuffenhausen to install the /6 running gear.

Paul

[sixnotfour]

Yes they also coated the strut tops, and applied the tar sheets to the longs in a -6
I think the -6's got a bit more attention than the -4"s

[Towarish]

I just read this discussion and maybe I can contribute a little to find the truth.
All 914 bodies were built treated and painted in Karmann factory Osnabrueck, though 914/4 and 914/6 in a different way.
There is a Porsche sheet dated 11/20/70, "Technical Information No.6, which says :
"The underside and cavities of all chassis are factory phosphatized and dipped in primer. Besides, the undercarriage is protected against corrosion with filler and lacquer "(here it does not say what color !)
"All 914/6 ordered by Porsche Zuffenhausen are protected by a PVC layer. (grey)
Both models are additional sprayed with a protection on wax basis."
So, IMHO any 914/6 with painted underfloor is not original appearance. Exceptions are wheelhouses and longitudinals, which are sprayed one time in a thin layer over PVC .
A black layer could be an additional Teroson protection ,which was applied later by customers. But you will find this black tar spray on the mechanic parts like axles as well.

[mepstein]

"The underside and cavities of all chassis are factory phosphatized and dipped in primer. "

If this is true, why are the interior floors bare steel under the tar?

I know my knowledge is limited but I just don't buy the - dipped in primer.

[racerbvd]

I just read this discussion and maybe I can contribute a little to find the truth.
All 914 bodies were built treated and painted in Karmann factory Osnabrueck, though 914/4 and 914/6 in a different way.
There is a Porsche sheet dated 11/20/70, "Technical Information No.6, which says :
"The underside and cavities of all chassis are factory phosphatized and dipped in primer. Besides, the undercarriage is protected against corrosion with filler and lacquer "(here it does not say what color !)
"All 914/6 ordered by Porsche Zuffenhausen are protected by a PVC layer. (grey)
Both models are additional sprayed with a protection on wax basis."
So, IMHO any 914/6 with painted underfloor is not original appearance. Exceptions are wheelhouses and longitudinals, which are sprayed one time in a thin layer over PVC .
A black layer could be an additional Teroson protection ,which was applied later by customers. But you will find this black tar spray on the mechanic parts like axles as well.

Thanks for the info, do you have an actual copy of Porsche sheet dated 11/20/70, "Technical Information No.6, that you could scan & post??

[Towarish]

"The underside and cavities of all chassis are factory phosphatized and dipped in primer. "

If this is true, why are the interior floors bare steel under the tar?

I know my knowledge is limited but I just don't buy the - dipped in primer.

This is, what I was thinking !
I once had to take out the brake master cylinder of a very rusty and rotten sixer. Doing this, I noticed, that I could peel off the PVC coating like sunburned skin.


Under this coating there was surprisingly clean,grey metal.
I believe,this is the primer ? The PVC coating looks to be white,or white painted, with a layer of black Teroson. In the steering channel you can see yellow spray, the original paint of this car.


Byron : Unfortunately I don´t have the rights to post this doc here, but I will ask the owner.

[SirAndy]

If this is true, why are the interior floors bare steel under the tar?

Because the primer went over the tar, just as did the paint? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


As for the underside, there is a layer of primer over the bare metal followed by a thin layer of light grey PVC.

The black stuff on top of that seems to have been optional as i have seen cars without it.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[sixerdon]

Here's how the process was described in the August '72 issue of Christophorus:
From raw metal.......
1. Degreasing and phosphate coating.
2. Dip priming electrophorous and baking.
3. Application of standard PVC undercoating and baking.
4. Spray primer and baking.
5. Hand polishing of base coat.
6. Top enamel coat and baking.

Although the subject focused on 911 bodies being built at Zuffenhausen, Karmann was also building 911 coupe bodies under contract for Porsche KG at the same time they were building 914/6 bodies. Therefore I believe they were following the same specification processes.

Don

[scotty b]

Cairo's 6

ALL FACTORY FINISH:

bare metal
grey primer
white " PVC " undercoating as used on 911's
gold paint/ heavy overspray


Probably dealership or aftermarket:

black tar based undercoating

[siverson]

Has there ever been any resolution to this? What is correct?

I'm redoing the paint on my original six in the:

- top part of engine compartment
- bottom part of engine compartment
- inside rear trunk
- bottom of rear trunk (under the car)
- inside rear fender wells

What's correct for these areas?

I'm surprised we don't have any original, 1970s photos of 914-6s from below...

-Steve

[Matt Romanowski]

Here are some photos from an original, 1 owner -6 as delivered from the factory. The bottom is painted to match the top. Sorry the car is dirty - it hasn't received it's put away cleaning yet.

[puffinator]

Here are some photos from an original, 1 owner -6 as delivered from the factory. The bottom is painted to match the top. Sorry the car is dirty - it hasn't received it's put away cleaning yet.

Follow this thread

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...220223&st=0

[racerbvd]

Thanks, here is another, 914-6, kinda famous, VERY well documented.

[Matt Romanowski]

The car I posted the pictures of has won A LOT of PCA concours. It almost won the Manhattan Trophy once and almost won Preservation at the Parade one time.

[db9146]

Does anyone know a source for the correct PVC undercoating? Mine appears to be a tan color that was sprayed on about 1-2mm thick and I need to attempt to repair it in a spot or two.