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> first start of new motor, do I prime the oil pump?, should I have to prime it manually... whats wrong?
brant
post Dec 26 2011, 04:46 PM
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any builders out there care to give me tips?

I rebuilt a 2.0 4 cylinder and tried to do a first start up on it for Christmas day.

Its in the garage... but very cold... probably had been around 10F the night before. The garage was warmed up with a kerosene heater, but I know the block was still pretty cold. Oil is brad Penn break in. Full rebuild... melling oil pump


So I know the oil is cold, but I've got it a touch over full and know the oil filter will hold a tiny bit more by the time oil fills it and all of the passages. Its not cold like molasses... its still flowing and the ambient in the garage is probably 55-60 at this point.

I pullled the coil wire and tried to turn the starter over to build pressure. After about 6 long cranks (approximately 8 seconds each?) I still don't have pressure on the gauge or the idiot light

So I pull the sender wire and verify the gauge is OK. Next I pull the sender off of the end of its flexible tubing and point the tube into a bucket while the car is cranked one more time.... No oil in the flexible tube.


Next I pull the oil filter and its got about 4/5ths (that I pre filled it with) but not wet and not full... no oil to the filter yet.

Next I put a piece of hose onto the threaded collar that the oil filter normally screws onto. I blow with my mouth and there is a tiny bit of resistance but definitely not plugged. I can hear air blowing into the sump.

finally I drain the oil and pull the tuna can... the pick up looks fine really from what I can tell through the sump hole.


So the motor has been cranked about 9 or 10 times total
I estimate that is about 90 seconds or a little less.
the last 2 or 3 times I cranked it It started to turn a little faster or "more freely" which I assume is the bearings and things fitting into each other.

I'm freaked about cranking it dry any longer.
its got a new raby cam and everything... I don't want to damage the lifters, etc.

I had used white lithium greas in the pump gears at assembly. Its a very viscous grease and shouldn't be "hard" from the temperature

Questions:

- Is there a way to prime the oil pump now? (maybe putting pressurized oil into the tubing on the oil filter collar, and having that run down hill into the pump gears?)

- am I just being a freak... and need to keep cranking it over longer or more due to the cool weather?


thanks in advance for any advice, especially "been there and know" kind of knowledge.

brant
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flash914
post Dec 26 2011, 05:12 PM
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You could pull the sender and with a low pressure pump put in a quart of oil in that way. Carefull keep it clean and not overpressure it.
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brant
post Dec 26 2011, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE(flash914 @ Dec 26 2011, 04:12 PM) *

You could pull the sender and with a low pressure pump put in a quart of oil in that way. Carefull keep it clean and not overpressure it.



I think the oil filter threaded collar is more direct to the oil pump..
the sender hose also goes to the cooler

I think I can take a 3/4 piece of tubing about 6 foot long. put it onto the oil filter collar and then hold it up above the engine (beside the car) and then just funnel in a quart that way

but do I need too?
should I have to prime it? (is something wrong with my assembly?)
would running 1 quart over full, submerge the oil pump and self prime it?
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bam914
post Dec 26 2011, 06:10 PM
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Pull the oil filter off and get oil to pump out. By filling the oil filter up you have created an air pocket. It is very hard to get oil pressure when you do this.
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PancakePorsche
post Dec 26 2011, 08:15 PM
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I rigged up a transmission funnel with a hose and 1/8 pipe fitting on the end. Unscrewed the pressure sender and slowly poured in about a half a quart. Fired up and had instant pressure. I found engine has to struggle to do initial lift to the pump without system pre-fill. Works for me.
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76-914
post Dec 26 2011, 08:16 PM
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Hey Brandt, just loosen the filter, crank until oil comes out and button it up. Just don't ask me anything about distributor caps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
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jcd914
post Dec 26 2011, 08:59 PM
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I think the oil in the filter makes it harder. The paper saturates and the air between the pump and filter can't escape as easily. leave the filter off or loose and crank until you get oil there. If you pull the plugs it cranks faster and that helps a lot too. I always crank up oil pressure with the power to the coil disconnected and plugs out, then after I have pressure I put the plugs in and hook up the coil.
The cranking you have done so far should not have caused any harm.

Jim
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Ferg
post Dec 26 2011, 09:51 PM
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Sounds like you need a beer, If you are still working I can be there in 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
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Elliot Cannon
post Dec 26 2011, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE(jcd914 @ Dec 26 2011, 06:59 PM) *

I think the oil in the filter makes it harder. The paper saturates and the air between the pump and filter can't escape as easily. leave the filter off or loose and crank until you get oil there. If you pull the plugs it cranks faster and that helps a lot too. I always crank up oil pressure with the power to the coil disconnected and plugs out, then after I have pressure I put the plugs in and hook up the coil.
The cranking you have done so far should not have caused any harm.

Jim

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) If you pre-lubed during the re-build, you shouldn't have to prime anything. Do the above, get pressure? OK, install plugs, coil wire and fire it up. Just my .02 cents.
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Dave_Darling
post Dec 26 2011, 11:18 PM
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I used a turkey baster to squirt some oil up into the oil pickup tube.

--DD
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Cap'n Krusty
post Dec 26 2011, 11:35 PM
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And the winner is ................

Loosen the oil filter until there's a gap, crank it without the spark plugs until oil comes out the aforementioned gap. Tighten the filter properly, crank it some more. When the oil pressure warning light goes out, you have pressure in the system. Been doing it this way for close to 40 years, and it always works.

The Cap'n
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vwsamba
post Dec 27 2011, 12:55 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) and should'nt it be vaseline in the oil pump gears to prime it?
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aharder
post Dec 27 2011, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE(Ferg @ Dec 26 2011, 09:51 PM) *

Sounds like you need a beer, If you are still working I can be there in 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I think i will have a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)
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brant
post Dec 27 2011, 09:16 AM
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Wow...
I did not know about the oil filter air pocket

thank you
thank you
thank you


I won't be able to work on it for another 2 weeks (its out of town)
but I will report back
thanks everyone!


brant
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SLITS
post Dec 27 2011, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(brant @ Dec 27 2011, 07:16 AM) *

Wow...
I did not know about the oil filter air pocket

thank you
thank you
thank you


I won't be able to work on it for another 2 weeks (its out of town)
but I will report back
thanks everyone!


brant


Hmmmm ... the engine left you for the Holidays ... bad engine, bad engine.
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brant
post Dec 27 2011, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(SLITS @ Dec 27 2011, 10:59 AM) *

QUOTE(brant @ Dec 27 2011, 07:16 AM) *

Wow...
I did not know about the oil filter air pocket

thank you
thank you
thank you


I won't be able to work on it for another 2 weeks (its out of town)
but I will report back
thanks everyone!


brant


Hmmmm ... the engine left you for the Holidays ... bad engine, bad engine.


yes bad engine
its an 8 hour round trip commute to where the car is stored.
If the darn thing would run soon.... I hope to bring it to my house before long and it will be a much easier thing to work on it after that.
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Jake Raby
post Dec 27 2011, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE
Next I pull the oil filter and its got about 4/5ths (that I pre filled it with) but not wet and not full... no oil to the filter yet



Thats the reason why it would not prime. Pre- filling the oil filter is the worst thing you can do for a first time start up of an engine.
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brant
post Dec 27 2011, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Dec 27 2011, 12:19 PM) *

QUOTE
Next I pull the oil filter and its got about 4/5ths (that I pre filled it with) but not wet and not full... no oil to the filter yet



Thats the reason why it would not prime. Pre- filling the oil filter is the worst thing you can do for a first time start up of an engine.



I didn't know that

Its your cam (full kit)
and I used the assembly lube supplied
hopefully the cranking that I've already done isn't too much
I will pull the filter and proceed.
thank you
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stugray
post Dec 27 2011, 01:38 PM
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Brant,

I have an oil cooler adapter with hoses that threads onto the oil filter.

If you could rig a pump onto that to pump through the system, you could borrow it.

Stu
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brant
post Dec 27 2011, 01:59 PM
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Thank you Stu
I think I have one too I can use.
but I appreciate the offer

brant
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