Starter relay or no starter relay, Been reading up for an hour and still don't know!! Options

[David Stowers]

On two occasions recently on pulling onto my driveway after a long journey my car won't restart after turning off to unlock the garage door. Luckily I can then just push the car in but with a European tour booked in the summer I'd like to sort the problem.
When I get back in after opening the garage the lights on the dash dim when I turn the key to start but there is no click. 20 minutes later it will start right up. Is this the problem that will be solved by a hot start relay kit or just a good old fashioned sticky solenoid? I'd rather do just the relay or just replace the solenoid so which is it?
Thanks guys

[Mblizzard]

Sometimes it is hard for me to get my head around why things seem to be so hard on these cars sometimes. But the more I read here and accept that we are dealing with 40-year old cars, it gets easier. I am going off me dory here so that is dangerous and some of the more qualified experts may correct me.

But if I remember correctly, the starting circuit carries the voltage needed to engage the solenoid through the key switch. Overtime the switch contacts become corroded and greater resistance is built up in the circuit. So there is not enough voltage going through the circuit when high temps increase the resistance. The installation of a relay solves that. Still may have the sticky solenoid but the problems in the circuit will be fixed by the relay so I think that is you first move.

Orginal Customs sells a really sweet coustom made relay set up for about $30 that is the way to go.

[SLITS]

Put the relay in and forget it.

Current Bosch rebuilt starters, at least on this side of the pond, use a solenoid that is cheap and fails easily.

[Luke M]

Here's a quick wiring guide.
You should be able to pick up all the parts needed at your local auto parts store.

[r_towle]

Might try cleaning your tranny ground strap.
I ended up replacing that ground strap and everything was fine.

The trigger is not pulling too much voltage.
The positive side of the starter goes directly to the battery.
The negative side of the starter relies upon the battery to chassis ground connection and the tranny to chassis ground connection.

That is typically the weak spot as they are old dirty connections.
I also found that over time, while visually it looks fine, the tranny ground strap looses it's ability to move current....just corrosion I suppose, but a new tranny ground strap does wonders for starting.

At the end of the day, and electric motor takes more power to turn when it's hot because things get tighter in there....so it may also be that factor.

[Mike Bellis]

Bottom line... The relay is a high current switching device, It will reduce wear on your ignition switch and help with hot start issues.

All modern cars have a starter relay.

[76-914]

Relay, relay, relay. Clean everything till your heart is content but install the relay anyway. A cheap Ford relay is the way to go. Bosch requires 9v nom to operate compared to Ford's 3.9v. + it's a damned sight cheaper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[SLITS]

One other thing is that the current crop of switch replacements are pure CRAP.

We just tried to start a conversion car fitted with a hi-torque starter and new switch and it was a no go ... no power to the solenoid whatsoever. Replaced the switch with the old used one and everything worked as it should.

We should give thanks to OneHungLow for producing crap.

Save the old switches with a relay!

[bandjoey]

The first year I drove my 914 I had the problem. Old Timer said clean the contacts. Bought a $10 HF dremmel tool, used the pointy sharp file, and the grinders, and went through all the car grounds. Polished all the wire plugs, buffed the ground straps, etc. they all turned from gray to bright brass. Sprayed electronic cleaner and reassembled. Never had a hot start problem again after 3 years. It's a long weekend of fun, but it works. Adding the relay is probably a workable bandaid. Others also say it takes the stress of of the ignition switch. That's the one reason I'll probably add a relay on my next valve adjustment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

[bandjoey]

In the drawing above....The big fat wire from the battery...you show it going to the plug in with alternator and then down to the relay, or bypass the alternator wire plug and go straight to the relay? Thanks for the I want to be sure clarification.

[Luke M]

In the drawing above....The big fat wire from the battery...you show it going to the plug in with alternator and then down to the relay, or bypass the alternator wire plug and go straight to the relay? Thanks for the I want to be sure clarification.

You leave those wires alone. You will be adding a new red ( + ) wire to the terminal to power the relay at # 30.

[David Stowers]

In the drawing above....The big fat wire from the battery...you show it going to the plug in with alternator and then down to the relay, or bypass the alternator wire plug and go straight to the relay? Thanks for the I want to be sure clarification.

You leave those wires alone. You will be adding a new red ( + ) wire to the terminal to power the relay at # 30.

Relay it is then.
Thanks all.

[type47]

Any suggestions for novel/unique/cool ways to mount the Ford relay? ... besides a stainless steel hose clamp around the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[SLITS]

Any suggestions for novel/unique/cool ways to mount the Ford relay? ... besides a stainless steel hose clamp around the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Screwed mine to the underside of the rear trunk floor (actually drilled thru and welded a fastener from the top (1/4 X 20 or 6mm as I remember).

[ClayPerrine]

I tried all the different hot start fixes over the last 28 years, ford relay, bosch relay, rebuilt bosch starters... everything.

Now I don't have a relay on either 914, and never have a hot start issue.

1. I cleaned all the grounds in both cars.
2. I put a new ground cable on them.
3. I use a high torque, aftermarket starter.

The high torque starters spin faster, and use less pull in current for the solenoid.

[toolguy]

Technically speaking, electrical current travels on the surface of a wire, not so much through a wire. . cleaning just the trans ground connection isn't good enough if the outside of the wire web of the ground strap is full of corrosion. . Same goes for the positive battery cable. . Often if you peel back some of the insulation at the battery terminal, you'll see the cable is coated with corrosion inside the sheath. . . . all this put together adds resistance and reduces the total current flow available to the starter. . If you have slow cranking then it may be time to replace the cables .
The relay addition is only for the circuit that energizes the solenoid and is good for prolonging the life of the ignition switch. . much easier to change a relay than find a good ignition switch. .

[David Stowers]

Technically speaking, electrical current travels on the surface of a wire, not so much through a wire. . cleaning just the trans ground connection isn't good enough if the outside of the wire web of the ground strap is full of corrosion. . Same goes for the positive battery cable. . Often if you peel back some of the insulation at the battery terminal, you'll see the cable is coated with corrosion inside the sheath. . . . all this put together adds resistance and reduces the total current flow available to the starter. . If you have slow cranking then it may be time to replace the cables .
The relay addition is only for the circuit that energizes the solenoid and is good for prolonging the life of the ignition switch. . much easier to change a relay than find a good ignition switch. .

Slow cranking isn't a problem, it's all or nothing. When hot the solenoid didn't move then 20 minutes later it span at a good speed and fired right up

[toolguy]

In your first post, you said the lights go dim when trying to crank a hot engine. . this indicates an excessive current draw, which 'should' mean the solenoid is operating and trying to pass current to the starter itself. . It could mean the contacts inside the solenoid have high resistance [lots of pitting] and it becomes 'terminal' when the starter and solenoid get hot. .
IMHO, if this is the case, adding a remote relay is not the correct fix. . all the relay does is place less of a load on the ignition switch itself. The relay is in turn passing the same yellow wire current to the solenoid. .
You can take the solenoid apart and clean up the contacts inside. .

[David Stowers]

You can take the solenoid apart and clean up the contacts inside. .

Right, that's my first move as its free!
Then maybe a relay to preserve my switch.

[Spoke]

the dash dim when I turn the key to start but there is no click.

I had the same thing happen to me. Turns out it was a bad connection between the battery lug and the terminal. Terminal was tight but a layer of oxidation had formed between the lug and the terminal.

Car would start, would start, would start, then nothing; all lights dim when trying to start; no headlights. When this happened, with the headlights on, the battery lugs measured 12.6V and the terminals measured about 4V.

Took the terminals off and cleaned everything. Never had a problem after that.