Best Engine for Porscheru Conversion, Vote the best Subaru Engine Choice Options

[R_u_dd]

Just for fun, I'm wondering what we get with a poll on engine choices for the Subaru conversion- Porscheru.
From My Notes, relying heavily on Ian at Coldwater914:

Porsche 914 Engine Options

HP Weight lbs/hp
EJ22 130-160 265 1.96
EJ25 165-200 298 1.81
Ej20tt 240 275
EZ30DR 216-245 315 1.85
EG33 225-275

EJ18: Found in Imprezas from 1993-1997. Rated at 110hp and 120 ft-lbs

EJ22 Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1990-1998 and Imprezas from 1995-1998.
Comes rated at 130hp and 137 ft-lbs, 135hp and 140 ft-lbs, or 137hp and 145 ft-lbs.

EJ22 Phase II: Found in Legacies in 1999 and Imprezas from 1999-2001. Rated at 142hp and 149 ft-lbs.

EJ22-T Phase I: Found in Sport Sedan and Touring Wagons (Legacies) from 1990-1994.
Turbocharged and non-intercooled. Rated at 160hp and 181 ft-lbs. Closed
Closed deck, cast pistons, forged rods, oil squirters: turbo motor. Poor flowing heads.

EJ25 DOHC Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1996-1999, Imprezas in 1998, and Foresters in 1998.in 1997-1999.
Rated at either 155hp and 140 ft-lbs in 1996 or 165hp and 162 ft-lbs in 1997-1999.

EJ25 SOHC Phase II: Found in Legacies from 2000+, Imprezas from 1999+, and Foresters from 1999+.
Rated at 165hp and 166 ft-lbs. There was a slight compression ratio change from 1999-2000 where it went from 9.7:1 to 10.0:1.

USDM EJ20: US Domestic Market WRX. Found in 2002+ WRXs. Rated at 227hp and 217 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, open deck, and decent heads.

EJ25T DOHC: Available in 2004 in the Forester XT. Rated at 210hp and 235 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, VVTi (Variable Valve Timing), and drive by wire.

EJ25T-STi DOHC: Available in 2004 in the WRX STi. Rated at 300hp and 300 ft-lbs.
Turbocharged, intercooled, AVCS (Active Valve Control System), drive by wire, intercooler sprayer, and semi-closed design.

EZ30D, found in 2000-2003 outback and legacy’s. At roughly 212 chp from the factory, it seems to have the lowest hp number of the bunch.
You can tell the difference between the others by the aluminum intake and its single exhaust port heads (looks like a long slot or oval)
as compared the later 6’s or the metal timing cover/size when compared to the eg33. It has two plus sides when compared to the latter EZ’s,
cheap drive by cable, non CANBUS and you can pick this up for around $1-2k. Furthermore the 212hp mark is deceiving, both the intake
and exhaust is extremely constricting on the donor car and from the swaps that have been done/dyno’d (in the Subaru world) just
upgrading to something less restrictive will put power up to 230-240 CHP.

EZ30R: See DBCooper: "Canbus Electronics require an aftermarket ECU for $2,000" but that's old information and not correct. The only reason to keep anything Canbus is to be able to use the OEM ECU, which usually comes with the engine for free, and Subarugears has a black box that will fake all the the rest of the Canbus stuff if that's what you want. Or you can just put on an old manual throttle body to eliminate the drive-by-wire, and then it's just like any other Subaru engine. Several $1200-1500 aftermarket ECU's will run the AVCS, or if you put in some hot aftermarket cams and pre-AVCS cam seals you can eliminate the AVCS altogether and run the whole thing with a $300 Microsquirt ECU. Lots of options, so the Canbus isn't really an obstacle.

The EZ30R engine is also the same size as the EZ30D but has 250 hp stock... "

Related Threads:
Porscheru Engine Choices
Subaru Engine Swap

[JRust]

Just a real world number. I have a 2000 NA SOHC 2.5 from a forrester. Was rebuilt with performance cams & heads. I'm also running a Stinger ECU from Outfront. It dyno'd at 158hp to the rear wheels. This pulls hard & drives fantastic. I couldn't fault anyone for going with the 2.5. I did buy a WRX motor recently to get some more power. Who knows if I will ever install it. I love driving mine as it is

[rnellums]

I've only ever driven my ez30d, so I can't definitively say it's the best.

[mgp4591]

I've driven an EZ30 and it was a blast but sounded different from the EG33... the latter just sounds WAY more exotic possibly due to the flat-plane crank design and the extra cubes. Heavier to be sure but at least it's all in the right place! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[DBCooper]

I always thought the EZ engines had a firing order that was a bit different than the Porsche six engines, but someone pointed out to me that Subaru numbers their cylinders differently than Porsche, so when you actually diagram them the firing order is the same. That means if you put on a Porsche two-in-one-out banana exhaust you should have a pretty similar sound. "Should" have. I haven't done it myself so don't know, but the P6 sound isn't too bad.

Also it says "EZ30R: Canbus Electronics require an aftermarket ECU for $2,000" but that's old information and not correct. The only reason to keep anything Canbus is to be able to use the OEM ECU, which usually comes with the engine for free, and Subarugears has a black box that will fake all the the rest of the Canbus stuff if that's what you want. Or you can just put on an old manual throttle body to eliminate the drive-by-wire, and then it's just like any other Subaru engine. Several $1200-1500 aftermarket ECU's will run the AVCS, or if you put in some hot aftermarket cams and pre-AVCS cam seals you can eliminate the AVCS altogether and run the whole thing with a $300 Microsquirt ECU. Lots of options, so the Canbus isn't really an obstacle.

The EZ30R engine is also the same size as the EZ30D but has 250 hp stock, so should do pretty well if you add it to your poll.

[AndyB]

I prefer N/A only for the simplicity of it. While a turbo is faster I am not going to be doing any red light racing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Andy

[R_u_dd]

I always thought the EZ engines had a firing order that was a bit different than the Porsche six engines, but someone pointed out to me that Subaru numbers their cylinders differently than Porsche, so when you actually diagram them the firing order is the same. That means if you put on a Porsche two-in-one-out banana exhaust you should have a pretty similar sound. "Should" have. I haven't done it myself so don't know, but the P6 sound isn't too bad.

Also it says "EZ30R: Canbus Electronics require an aftermarket ECU for $2,000" but that's old information and not correct. The only reason to keep anything Canbus is to be able to use the OEM ECU, which usually comes with the engine for free, and Subarugears has a black box that will fake all the the rest of the Canbus stuff if that's what you want. Or you can just put on an old manual throttle body to eliminate the drive-by-wire, and then it's just like any other Subaru engine. Several $1200-1500 aftermarket ECU's will run the AVCS, or if you put in some hot aftermarket cams and pre-AVCS cam seals you can eliminate the AVCS altogether and run the whole thing with a $300 Microsquirt ECU. Lots of options, so the Canbus isn't really an obstacle.

The EZ30R engine is also the same size as the EZ30D but has 250 hp stock, so should do pretty well if you add it to your poll.

I added your comments to the top of the blog. Can't seem to add to the poll though. If there is an administrator watching, I would add:
EZ30R, 250HP and
EJ25/22 Franken Hybrid

[CptTripps]

I wish I'd gone the NA route. Although, I'm sure the min I get mine done, I'll be glad I went for a big turbo....

[76-914]

I doubt anyone here can answer that question with much authority. We can, however, toot our own horns and tell you how much we like our very own particular conversion.

[madmax914]

I always thought the EZ engines had a firing order that was a bit different than the Porsche six engines, but someone pointed out to me that Subaru numbers their cylinders differently than Porsche, so when you actually diagram them the firing order is the same. That means if you put on a Porsche two-in-one-out banana exhaust you should have a pretty similar sound. "Should" have. I haven't done it myself so don't know, but the P6 sound isn't too bad.

Also it says "EZ30R: Canbus Electronics require an aftermarket ECU for $2,000" but that's old information and not correct. The only reason to keep anything Canbus is to be able to use the OEM ECU, which usually comes with the engine for free, and Subarugears has a black box that will fake all the the rest of the Canbus stuff if that's what you want. Or you can just put on an old manual throttle body to eliminate the drive-by-wire, and then it's just like any other Subaru engine. Several $1200-1500 aftermarket ECU's will run the AVCS, or if you put in some hot aftermarket cams and pre-AVCS cam seals you can eliminate the AVCS altogether and run the whole thing with a $300 Microsquirt ECU. Lots of options, so the Canbus isn't really an obstacle.

The EZ30R engine is also the same size as the EZ30D but has 250 hp stock, so should do pretty well if you add it to your poll.

I don't remember reading what years and models of Subaru's the EZ30R comes in.

[GermermanCarGuy]

[/quote]
I don't remember reading what years and models of Subaru's the EZ30R comes in.
[/quote]

Been doing some reading on this very engine. What I've been able to find out is it came in the 2003-9 Legacy 3.0R and Outback 3.0R, as well as the 2006-7 Tribeca.

Looking for one myself

[DBCooper]

I don't know which years and models, but the "R" designation was because it came in the JDM performance "R" model cars. Technically it's still an EZ30D engine, but different because it has 'performance' heads with three exhaust ports instead of the standard D's single siamesed port. From the top you can tell it by the black plastic intake manifold instead of aluminum. I just checked and there are several for sale on eBay right now, search for EZ30 and look for black plastic manifolds.

And CptTripps made a good point about the big turbo. There aren't that many performance parts for the EZ engines, so you probably want to be content with their horsepower as a N/A stock engine and leave them alone. The EJ engines, on the other hand are like small block Chevys, with all kinds of performance parts available. You want more power? Install larger injectors and a bigger turbo and go have fun. When it breaks replace that part with something stronger and keep doing that until it doesn't doesn't break any more. So that's another factor in the choice.

[Bulldog9]

We have a 2005 Outback with the 3.0. (250HP) This has been a great engine. I really like the power, dynamics and sound of the motor, it would be my first choice if I was doing a swap.

At 185,000 the only problem has been the serp belt idler pulleys and the throttle body. The car is a drive by wire, and the throttle body motor went out. Burns no oil, is easy on plugs, and has been very reliable.

The only thing I've found with Subaru motors is the need for the Subaru additive to the cooling system with every coolant change. Otherwise the car will mimic a bad head gasket and seep and leak/burn coolant. I discovered this when we bought the car in 2010. Did a coolant change and within a week was loosing coolant and had that smell. Went to the forum and discovered the little bottle. Problem stopped within a day or so and hasnt returned over 110,000 miles. Saved me a needless head gasket job.

[a914622]

Man that's a 2 part question.
For a 6 eg33, the inside of those engines is amazing. For it's day they had more hp than a corvette . A good head port job and some long tube headers= sweetness. And as stated above same firing order as air cooled porsche.

If you want a hot 4, ej22t With phase 2 2.5 heads and cams. Unbalivable tork curve. Plus the 22t ecu are not hard to hack.


But I'm in on the eg3.3!

[R_u_dd]

I am interested in the weights and torque numbers of these engines if anyone can help me fill in the missing numbers at the top of the post.


Thank you all for the responses to this post, much appreciated.

[madmax914]

I don't know which years and models, but the "R" designation was because it came in the JDM performance "R" model cars. Technically it's still an EZ30D engine, but different because it has 'performance' heads with three exhaust ports instead of the standard D's single siamesed port. From the top you can tell it by the black plastic intake manifold instead of aluminum. I just checked and there are several for sale on eBay right now, search for EZ30 and look for black plastic manifolds.

And CptTripps made a good point about the big turbo. There aren't that many performance parts for the EZ engines, so you probably want to be content with their horsepower as a N/A stock engine and leave them alone. The EJ engines, on the other hand are like small block Chevys, with all kinds of performance parts available. You want more power? Install larger injectors and a bigger turbo and go have fun. When it breaks replace that part with something stronger and keep doing that until it doesn't doesn't break any more. So that's another factor in the choice.

Outfront Motorsports is getting 900hp out of an H6, which is the 3.0 motor we have been talking about. Sounds like they are have good success pumping them up. I'm sure at 900hp the reliability is crap but I'm sure you can add power adders(Turbo or Supercharger) if you change the compression ratio.

[DBCooper]

I don't know which years and models, but the "R" designation was because it came in the JDM performance "R" model cars. Technically it's still an EZ30D engine, but different because it has 'performance' heads with three exhaust ports instead of the standard D's single siamesed port. From the top you can tell it by the black plastic intake manifold instead of aluminum. I just checked and there are several for sale on eBay right now, search for EZ30 and look for black plastic manifolds.

And CptTripps made a good point about the big turbo. There aren't that many performance parts for the EZ engines, so you probably want to be content with their horsepower as a N/A stock engine and leave them alone. The EJ engines, on the other hand are like small block Chevys, with all kinds of performance parts available. You want more power? Install larger injectors and a bigger turbo and go have fun. When it breaks replace that part with something stronger and keep doing that until it doesn't doesn't break any more. So that's another factor in the choice.

Outfront Motorsports is getting 900hp out of an H6, which is the 3.0 motor we have been talking about. Sounds like they are have good success pumping them up. I'm sure at 900hp the reliability is crap but I'm sure you can add power adders(Turbo or Supercharger) if you change the compression ratio.

It's true that anything is possible. And it's not new, Perrin got 1000 hp from an EZ30 motor ten years ago, but everything inside it was custom made. I don't know anyone with the time/tools/resources/money to do that so am speaking more about parts you can actually buy and bolt together. There's very little for the EZ motors, boatloads of stuff for the EJ's.

[mgp4591]

I don't know which years and models, but the "R" designation was because it came in the JDM performance "R" model cars. Technically it's still an EZ30D engine, but different because it has 'performance' heads with three exhaust ports instead of the standard D's single siamesed port. From the top you can tell it by the black plastic intake manifold instead of aluminum. I just checked and there are several for sale on eBay right now, search for EZ30 and look for black plastic manifolds.

And CptTripps made a good point about the big turbo. There aren't that many performance parts for the EZ engines, so you probably want to be content with their horsepower as a N/A stock engine and leave them alone. The EJ engines, on the other hand are like small block Chevys, with all kinds of performance parts available. You want more power? Install larger injectors and a bigger turbo and go have fun. When it breaks replace that part with something stronger and keep doing that until it doesn't doesn't break any more. So that's another factor in the choice.

Outfront Motorsports is getting 900hp out of an H6, which is the 3.0 motor we have been talking about. Sounds like they are have good success pumping them up. I'm sure at 900hp the reliability is crap but I'm sure you can add power adders(Turbo or Supercharger) if you change the compression ratio.

I haven't heard of anyone turbocharging an EG33 in a 914 yet but it's a great candidate. It's already got forged steel crank and rods with forged aluminum pistons, but the JDM EJ22TT pistons are available aftermarket from JE and the dealer still- they pop right into the EG33. With the right combination, 600 reliable hp wouldn't be out of the question if one was so inclined... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)