More Rear Mount Oil Cooler Questions, Setrab Setup Options

[BeatNavy]

I'm trying to nail down why I'm having oil cooler issues. Specifically, I've blown two sandwich plate adapter seals in the same place / manner. In addition, during my test drives I wasn't necessarily thrilled with the temp drop I was seeing.

First, I'm running the Setrab oil cooler and Setrab sandwich plate adapter. Anyone else running the Setrab sandwich plate adapter without any issues? I know I'm not the ONLY one, but how many people run this as opposed to something like the Mocal setup?

Second, when I contacted Pegasus Racing to order more seals, I spoke to the tech guy who gave me some food for thought. The most interesting thing was he said the oil cooler needs to be mounted with the inlet and outlet ports facing up, otherwise the cooler won't fill up all the way and you won't get ideal (or any) cooling.

Here's my setup with it angled somewhat down for what I hoped was good airflow: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2826235

Essentially he says the oil takes "the path of least resistance" which could largely be from the inlet port to the outlet port using few of the cooling rows. I assumed the pressure would fill the cooler, but I can see what he's saying. Any thoughts on that? If that's the case, I really need to completely redo my mounting setup and plumbing.

[rgolia]

you got two weeks to get this baby on the road and up to PA. Get on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[BeatNavy]

you got two weeks to get this baby on the road and up to PA. Get on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

Thanks, Ralph. I'm on it (hopefully with some help here). Right now I'm losing confidence I'm going to be able to get this thing where it needs to be for a road trip... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Montreal914]

Yes, you are trapping air in that cooler, flip it around.

In an ideal world, inlet should be at the bottom, outlet at the top, but both at the top will be good too. Initially, as the oil fills the cooler, it will push the air out. In your setup, the air has not way out, unless you had a purge bleeder at the top. Same as purging brakes lines, bleeders are on the top.

Here's my setup; those sharp elbows at the top are not the best, nice sweeping elbow would prevent pressure loss.

[Olympic 914]

Rob

Not using the Setrab sandwich adapter, So I can't help with that issue. (Don't know what brand it is) I am running the Setrab oil thermostat. In that case the oil should follow the path of least resistance and bypass the oil cooler (somewhat) until it hits 180 when all the oil is sent to the cooler.

Mounted my cooler parallel to the trunk floor. that is inclined about 6 deg towards the fittings. both my fittings are on the top.

Another way, and I considered this, would be to mount the cooler with the fittings on the side. Input on the bottom and incline it slightly with the output on top.

I have been driving this thing a lot in the HOT weather we have been having and am really happy with the cooling I see on the Temp gauge.

Where before it would easily hit 250-260 in the heat, Now it rarely gets to 220 and mostly hovers between 200-215

With the fresh engine your heat will be higher, should drop down some after it breaks in some.

Hope you get it sorted out.

[90quattrocoupe]

The most interesting thing was he said the oil cooler needs to be mounted with the inlet and outlet ports facing up, otherwise the cooler won't fill up all the way and you won't get ideal (or any) cooling.

Essentially he says the oil takes "the path of least resistance" which could largely be from the inlet port to the outlet port using few of the cooling rows. I assumed the pressure would fill the cooler, but I can see what he's saying. Any thoughts on that? If that's the case, I really need to completely redo my mounting setup and plumbing.

I don't know how many times I have had this discussion with friends running their coolers with the lines coming in from the bottom. I was easier for them to mount this way. The cooler is just less efficient this way.

Greg W.

[BeatNavy]

Thanks for the input. I spend a good part of the day undoing my setup from last time (of which I was pretty proud) and then reinstalling the cooler so the inlet/outlet ports are oriented up. It was a bit of a b**** to get the lines to fit, but I got them. I had to swap out the 45 degree AN fittings for some straight connectors. The good news is I can now actually install my grommets where the lines pass through the engine tin, and there's really no change the half shaft is going to interfere with anything.

So much for my shroud and ideal air flow, but air flow doesn't help if it's passing across a largely empty oil cooler with no oil in it to cool.

Here's the current orientation. @Olympic 914 Tom, I know you're concerned about airflow with the fan shroud (as am I). I'm going to see how it works. Good news is it should be pretty easy to remove if needed.


Here's what it looked like originally:


I'm nervous to take it for a ride again in case the seal blows, but you gotta do it, right? Boy it makes a hell of a mess when/if it happens. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. I'm pretty beat right now.

[DRPHIL914]

Chris Foley mounted mine when it was up there for the long and floor pan rust repair a couple years ago, and I know they mounted it with the inlet/outlets at the top, and when I pulled motor and trans for paint , I put it back in place the same way, but it is mounted in the same location you have it.

I am curious to find out what you learn about the seal issue. I have had a leak at the location of the sandwich plate adaptor but realized it was not secured tightly and had worked loose I think when I did the oil change. I went back and pulled the filter and had to re-torque the nut holding the adaptor . what seal are you talking about, the one between the adapter and the engine/ filter mount location? sounds like its way more than the drip I had....hope you can figure it out soon , I don't know the system well enough to guess why the pressure would be that high....

Phil

[Porschef]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[rmdinmd]

[quote name='BeatNavy' date='Jul 6 2020, 05:50 PM' post='2831526']
Tom, I know you're concerned about airflow with the fan shroud (as am I). I'm going to see how it works. Good news is it should be pretty easy to remove if needed.


Here's what it looked like originally:


I was a TAB tech for 30 years and airflow was one of our specialties. IMO the fan shroud is going to hurt the airflow whether the fan is pushing or pulling as it will probably cause an increase in pressure resulting in a decrease in airflow and a loss of heat transfer. When I installed a cooler I had the inlet at the bottom and the outlet at the top to help avoid "trapping air". people like to think a pump will "push" the air out but if the air has to go "down hill" any significant amount it gets "trapped" instead resulting in decreased flow.

[BeatNavy]

Hey guys, thanks for the interest and input. We had a brief but really intense thunderstorm not long after I posted on Monday evening, and we lost a HUGE branch off our "prized" tree out front. Plus a few Bradford Pears doing what Bradford Pears do. The last two and a half days has been cutting, limbing, loading, and hauling wood. Still not done, but I need to wait for my neighbor with his front loader. I'm absolutely beat from all that "fun."

Anyway, I took it out a few minutes ago. I got it up to temp, and it seemed to peak at around 210 (it's pretty hot out today, too). If that's where I peak, I'm ok with that. Best part is it didn't seem to leak -- I didn't leave a trail of Brad Penn 20W50 on our rural road like I did last week. I still need to take it out some more, as when I've had problems with that seal it's been on the 2nd or 3rd drive. I wonder if it had something to do with the air I was trapping in the system (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I kept pulling over to the side of the road and/or turn offs to peak under the car for massive leaks, and at one point to add a bunch more oil that had been pumped into the cooler. As one car was driving by fast in the traffic I heard a guy yell out "NINE FOURTEEN!!!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do have another issue to address sooner or later -- oil leak at the bottom of the oil pump cover plate. I'm guessing the front seal has given away partly, or perhaps the oil pump cover itself is leaking. Not cool, and either way I'm looking at an engine drop.

[Bartlett 914]

Glad to read you solved the oil leaks.
Would you mind showing your hose routing? I see you are not in front of the valve covers. I have them there and it makes an issue when adjusting the valves.I would like to see yours before I do any cutting in the sheet metal

Mark

[BeatNavy]

Glad to read you solved the oil leaks.
Would you mind showing your hose routing? I see you are not in front of the valve covers. I have them there and it makes an issue when adjusting the valves.I would like to see yours before I do any cutting in the sheet metal

Mark

Hey Mark, hopefully I've solved the oil leaks. At least the major one at the sandwich plate adapter. Did second test drive this afternoon, and so far, so good. It may be as Rod ( @root ) told me several years ago with regard to 914's: "Three times. THREE TIMES! I have to do everything THREE TIMES before I get it right!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'll post pics of the hose routing once I put it back on the lift for inspection, but basically they go from the sandwich plate, up through the J-tube hole in the shelf tin, then back through holes I cut in the back tin (and grommeted) to the oil cooler. I also didn't want anything messing up access to the valves, and more than one person here suggested it, including Joe ( @Porschef ).

rc

[Bartlett 914]

Glad to read you solved the oil leaks.
Would you mind showing your hose routing? I see you are not in front of the valve covers. I have them there and it makes an issue when adjusting the valves.I would like to see yours before I do any cutting in the sheet metal

Mark

Hey Mark, hopefully I've solved the oil leaks. At least the major one at the sandwich plate adapter. Did second test drive this afternoon, and so far, so good. It may be as Rod ( @root ) told me several years ago with regard to 914's: "Three times. THREE TIMES! I have to do everything THREE TIMES before I get it right!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'll post pics of the hose routing once I put it back on the lift for inspection, but basically they go from the sandwich plate, up through the J-tube hole in the shelf tin, then back through holes I cut in the back tin (and grommeted) to the oil cooler. I also didn't want anything messing up access to the valves, and more than one person here suggested it, including Joe ( @Porschef ).

rc

Oh I see what you did. But going through the J-tube hole kills half of the heat from the heat exchangers. I am not sure I can live with that. I would like to see your setup just the same.
I know what you mean about the "three's". Happens to me also

[Olympic 914]

Oh I see what you did. But going through the J-tube hole kills half of the heat from the heat exchangers. I am not sure I can live with that.

Some cars only had the aux blower going into the drivers side anyways. My '73 was set up this way.

Originally I added the aux fan splitter and the extra hose to the passenger side. When I installed the oil cooler I eliminated the pass side hose. The car got plenty hot inside without it. And I thought it just cluttered up the engine compartment even more.

The engine fan shroud is always sending air down the HEs whether it is directed into the pass compartment or dumped out under the car. So you really don't loose heat to that side. its just not boosted by the aux fan.

JMHO

[BeatNavy]

And I thought it just cluttered up the engine compartment even more.

So you really don't loose heat to that side. its just not boosted by the aux fan.

Exactly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bartlett 914]

Oh I see what you did. But going through the J-tube hole kills half of the heat from the heat exchangers. I am not sure I can live with that.

Some cars only had the aux blower going into the drivers side anyways. My '73 was set up this way.

Originally I added the aux fan splitter and the extra hose to the passenger side. When I installed the oil cooler I eliminated the pass side hose. The car got plenty hot inside without it. And I thought it just cluttered up the engine compartment even more.

The engine fan shroud is always sending air down the HEs whether it is directed into the pass compartment or dumped out under the car. So you really don't loose heat to that side. its just not boosted by the aux fan.

JMHO

Good point! I think I could live with that after all. I think the biggest looser will be windshield defogging at idle. Worth a try!

[maf914]

I kept pulling over to the side of the road and/or turn offs to peak under the car for massive leaks, and at one point to add a bunch more oil that had been pumped into the cooler. As one car was driving by fast in the traffic I heard a guy yell out "NINE FOURTEEN!!!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Rob, Thanks for posting your oil cooler installation threads. Good info for those of us considering an oil cooler.

Your comment above made me wonder how much additional oil you needed above the usual 4 quarts.

Another question. Does the additional oil drain back into the engine sump when the engine is shut off? Or does the oil in the cooler remain trapped in the cooler?

Thanks.

[BeatNavy]

Hey Mike - interesting question. I've given it some thought, and I'm not sure there is a clear cut answer. I suppose it depends on how your oil lines are routed and what the "elevation" is of the components. In my setup I would guess that at least some of the oil drains back to the case, but mostly from what's left in the lines. Because my oil lines go up some into the engine bay (before going back down through the J-Tube hole), there's a bit of a natural trap in the cooler. I honestly don't know how much total oil I have in the system, but I'd guess it's roughly 4.5 to 5 quarts.

EDIT: While I'm at it I should point out that I've made 5 trips now bringing oil up to temp, and no blown seal so far. Gaining some confidence that I'm good at this point. Temps are ok, but still in the 215 to 220 range range. I guess I can live with that. I did remove the "shroud" for the fan I created, but it didn't seem to change things significantly one way or another.

[stownsen914]

It's good advice to have the cooler oriented with the fittings facing up to encourage proper flow through the cooler. Having the cooler under the back of the car isn't optimal unfortunately due to all the heat back there, though choice are limited if you don't want to cut up the car. Remember that for an oil cooler to do its job, it has to be able to shed heat to lower temperature air. It's hot next to the trans and just above the exhaust, so not much heat differential to work with. And limited airflow under there too. Years ago I put an external cooler on a lightly modded 2.0L. With it mounted in back, I was hitting 275 degrees oil temp at trackdays. Moved the same cooler up front with a hole in the bumper to get air to it, and it dropped to 250.