Tinware writing, Was this on all cars…?? Options

[Clubsport32]

Hi All

Have seen this on an unrestored car…does anybody have anymore details…? I assume the 022 refers to the 1.7L but what about the other number?

Any insight would be appreciated…thanks

Andy

[davep]

I think most engines had the markings. With all the variations of the type IV engines it was important to positively identify with quick and simple marks like these.
It helps to know the VIN of the car and or the serial # of the engine when posting these photos.
There are other threads, and Geoff Bowlsby has a good set of photos here:
https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PLM.htm

[StarBear]

Those number are quite different than any I’ve seen. There was a thread on tin numbers 2-3 months ago.

[wonkipop]

sure look different to mine too.
mine probably look like your 1.8 starbear.

those there numbers in that photo look quite unique. maybe a real early car?

[StarBear]

This is what every one I've ever seen looks like (mine), though numbers vary. I think a prior thread indicated they were lot numbers to match tins with the types of engines produced.

[wonkipop]

mine looks like that- sort of. number is 604 instead of 605.

the guy with the brush and stencil must have been sober when he did yours.
mine is smeared - stencil slipped?
they drank a lot of beers at lunchtime in hanover in the 70s?

[StarBear]

There was a thread a few months ago. Might make sense of your 604 and my 605 since yours was produced a few weeks before mine so a different lower tin set number. For production allocation and coordination maybe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[davep]

I do not believe these were stenciled; it looks more like a stamp to me. Look at the 0 in post 6 above. the center of the character is pretty much void of paint and the character is mostly seen in outline. If you press a stamp hard, you squeeze the paint to the edges and you get an outlined character.

[wonkipop]

I do not believe these were stenciled; it looks more like a stamp to me. Look at the 0 in post 6 above. the center of the character is pretty much void of paint and the character is mostly seen in outline. If you press a stamp hard, you squeeze the paint to the edges and you get an outlined character.

i think you are right. they do look like stamps don't they.

----

i found a thread dating 2006 on this site.
maybe that @StarBear mentioned.
interesting read.

lots of speculation as to purpose.
suggestion about them being inventory stock numbers for engine tin batches.

i looked closely at these photos i had on file from wikipedia.
originally from Bundersarchiv.
VW engine plant at hanover.
looks like engines for 411/412.
photos are low res but you can see just enough.
the stamps appear to go on in the later stages of engine assembly but are not present on tin early in engine build?

doesn't look like its an engine builder team stamp.
seems to be a moving assembly line of overhead slung engine stands moving along.

[StarBear]

Wow! How do you find this stuff? Great job; keep it up!

[wonkipop]

its part of my real job - historical research.

we got stuck down here in the world's longest lockdowns.
i found a lot of this stuff a year ago "in prison" and filed it away.
i pulled these photos i had and looked at them closely.

the last photo looks to me like production line inspectors going over the engines?
engines look finished.
the guy with the cotton coat on has the classic look of a QA guy.
and at the moment or just before the stamps look like they appear.

the thread i found had some anecdotes from german members here talking about recollections by former VW employees - good stories but didn't gell with these photos or the idea of stamping the engines late in the production build process. if the photos are to be trusted the stamps are not there on tin when delivered from suppliers or sub contractor i d stamps.

i know these stamps were not on type 1/type 3 engines.
i had a german built squareback 40 years ago with the original tin on the engine.
no numbers on that. saw plenty of beetles back then, aus and german built.
no numbers.

interesting stuff.


quirky little detail - in last photo - the timing plugs are not installed.
probably the guy who did the final tune on the engines once installed at the very end of the production line had a pocket full of those and screwed them in at the end of the tune before the car was run on the rolling road.

[JeffBowlsby]

I have a good colleciotn of these on my webpage. I don know the full story, but they seem t be related to invidual year engine identifications.

The 73-74 1.7 and 2.0 engines also have this stamp I.O. which I am told meant 'in order'. Unverified info.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PLM.htm

[JeffBowlsby]

According to my list:

604 is a 1974 1.8L, but I don't know which engine code it is?
605 is a 1974 1.8L EC-B engine code, CA-model
606 over P is a 1974 1.8L EC-A engine code, USA-model

Att 1.8L are EC-code engines but there were sub categories. Look for the label on the drivers side interior engine bay side panel, it will tell you. EC-A, EC-B etc.

[wonkipop]

i've seen a snatch of footage where you can see a 2.0 L 4 being assembled by one of the engine builders at the porsche factory in stuttgart. but that likely was an early proto engine when porsche were working on the design of the 2.0?

i can't see that bit of tin on my 1.8 without a mirror.
but i think my 1.8 only has the one marking on the LHS side near the alternator port.
there might have been a stamp on the rhs but its not visible anymore if it was.

its interesting that the whole package is there, exhaust system and all.
they would not have been able to do that with the 914 engines due to the exhaust system. probably didn't put that on until it got to karmann and was mated with the gearbox.

[wonkipop]

According to my list:

604 is a 1974 1.8L, but I don't know which engine code it is?
605 is a 1974 1.8L EC-B engine code, 49-state
606 over P is a 1974 1.8L EC-A engine code, CA-model

Att 1.8L are EC-code engines but there were sub categories. Look for the label on the drivers side interior engine bay side panel, it will tell you. EC-A, EC-B etc.

ok, my car is a jan build 74 1,8 and it was delivered to maryland.

i've read some stuff on emissions laws in the USA from back in that period that suggests it was not as simple as california and 49 states. i think i came across some stuff that said maryland adopted california smog laws alongside california due to it being basically washington DC. Also i read some stuff about Chicago as a city adopting California standards earlier than elsewhere and having the smog tests enforced equal to LA.

that bit of 604, 605 info is real interesting. i don't have a 606 stamp but its definitely a Maryland delivery.

[wonkipop]

ok mr. b

mine is an EC-B on that sticker. jan 74 build.

i am pretty sure the ink stamp is 604. you can see photo above.
the last number is very smeared.


hadn't read that sticker closely before.
says conforms to EPA regs for 74 model year.
guess that answers a question i had once.
how did smog laws apply, model year or calendar year.
looks like sticker indicates smog laws effect in USA model year for all cars?


EDIT
looks like starbear got himself a california car?
i got a 49 state car.
but there is also another form of the 74 california car?
so i take back what i say about EPA laws and model years.
starbears got a story about his being karmann plated late in 73 and then vin numbered much later in mar 74 or something like that.
sounds like his could have been a valid order california car that had to get diverted to 49 states due to something going on with california in 74?

i'd always read that the 74 1.8s were a single USA wide conforming model.
i came across that somewhere. basically met california smog laws and they sold them everywhere in continental USA.

[StarBear]

Yep; just checked sticker: EC-B. States “California standards applicable to all 1974 cars”.
Always thought mine might have been a CA car. Delivered to Portsmouth VA and dropped off at a dealer in Richmond. It was way in the back and not prepped. The sales folks didn’t know it was there. Couldn’t afford the two 2.0s on the lot and the only 914 was ugly green with Steelers. Ugh. Saw this one way in the back. Might (?) have been dropped off for transshipment to CA, but who knows. I snagged it and the dealer got a sale. ‘Nuff said! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[StarBear]

Not sure. JEff’s first post indicates 605 EC-B is a CA car but when included in Wonkipop’s reply it indicates 49 States. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[wonkipop]

Yep; just checked sticker: EC-B. States “California standards applicable to all 1974 cars”.
Always thought mine might have been a CA car. Delivered to Portsmouth VA and dropped off at a dealer in Richmond. It was way in the back and not prepped. The sales folks didn’t know it was there. Couldn’t afford the two 2.0s on the lot and the only 914 was ugly green with Steelers. Ugh. Saw this one way in the back. Might (?) have been dropped off for transshipment to CA, but who knows. I snagged it and the dealer got a sale. ‘Nuff said! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

sounds like my sticker is the same as yours mate.
california and all states.

yep - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)



i really feel its a batching thing. but thats a wild guess.
my car was karmann numbered late jan and vin numbered 01/74.
its a car that went straight through the system fast.
the engine stamp is a 4 when yours is a 5.
yours is vin march 74 but an early karmann number.
it probably did not finish hard core final assembly until mar 74.

i think the engines were built in batches that were run through the hanover plant.
they would have dedicated days or weeks of the year they ran a batch of 914 engines through. the different batches would have been kitted with the fuel injection components and other things specific to certain cars being assembled off site at other factories.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

slightly off topic.
something is weird about the engine production line photos.

tin wear is 914 tin?
don't think i am imagining this.
buses and 411s/412s had very different tin around the perimeters where it mated with body and around the fan.

some images below.

i could be wrong but i think all the buses and 411s had the coil off the mag fan shroud (1.8s did but not other 914s?).
engines in factory photos have coils on the tin mounting position.

but - they are all fitted with standard VW rear engine exhaust systems and big blocky VW standard heat exchangers.

?????????????

PS - see 411 brochure. I O painted on tin in front of fan shroud.