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> Body Solder vs. Plastic (Bondo) Filler, what's better
dkos
post Jun 6 2006, 09:48 AM
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Making my first attempts at body work, welded in the patch piece and grinded it down. Now what do I do to make it smooth? Plastic body filler like Bondo? I'm a little wary of using lead. I'm working in my garage and I have kids around. Don't want to poison anyone. Eastwood has a lead-free solder kit, but it's not cheap ($150). Is it any good? Is it worth the extra cost? Should I treat the bare metal patch area with something before I use body filler/solder?

Thanks for your help


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Cornholio
post Jun 6 2006, 10:05 AM
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Both are an exercise in patience and experience. IF done right both will serve the purpose..read the instuctions, good prep PROPER mixing of the bondo at the right temperatures will give a filler.

Flex is a killer....

Lead....if a proper mask is worn is not a bad filler.

The lead free solder...not tried it.
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Aaron Cox
post Jun 6 2006, 10:08 AM
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if you want metal...

look at "all metal" i think is what it is called...
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Brian_Boss
post Jun 6 2006, 10:12 AM
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I've done some lead work on motorcycle tanks and fenders and there is quite a bit of skill involved. You have to keep the lead in the temperature range where it is plastic (not solid but not completely liquid). If you get it too hot it all runs off. Vertical surfaces are particularly tricky in this regard. The benefit is that when applied over clean metal, it will never come off because it is chemically bonded.

Others with more experience can probably tell you a lot more about polyester filler (Bondo) than I but I think the bad reputation it has with some people is the result of 1) overapplication due to bad metal bumping and 2) use of it to cover rust.

For your repair, I would recommend Bondo unless you would derive enjoyment from mastering the art of leading.

If you do go for lead, I highly recommend a product called "tinning butter". This is flux with tiny grains of lead in it and it makes it much easier to get the surface tinned (coated with a thin layer of lead which allows the filler to stick). I don't know if the kit includes it or not.
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Mark Henry
post Jun 6 2006, 10:12 AM
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Needs to be cleaned up better.
Fiberglass bondo first, then finsh with the plastic.

QUOTE
"Should I treat the bare metal patch area with something before I use body filler/solder? "


I sandblast welds and use epoxy paint first...but it's spendy and a lot of the old-school body guys still just put the bondo over clean bare metal.
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davep
post Jun 6 2006, 10:15 AM
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The factory used to use lead. Back in the days of the 356 they used to fit the door to the door frame, lead the gap, then cut the gap with a hot 'knife'. Gave a perfect gap every time, but the chances that door would fit another car was slim to none.

Modern materials work well, but the instructions need to be followed to the letter. Prep and finish is everything.
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dkos
post Jun 6 2006, 11:42 AM
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Aaron,

I googled "all metal" and nothing came up. Are you talking about "Lab-metal"? Anyone use Lab-metal for body work?

QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Jun 6 2006, 12:08 PM) *

if you want metal...

look at "all metal" i think is what it is called...
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Aaron Cox
post Jun 6 2006, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE(dkos @ Jun 6 2006, 10:42 AM) *

Aaron,

I googled "all metal" and nothing came up. Are you talking about "Lab-metal"? Anyone use Lab-metal for body work?

QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Jun 6 2006, 12:08 PM) *

if you want metal...

look at "all metal" i think is what it is called...



you sure? cuz i googled it and it came right up...
http://www.classicchevy.com/product.asp?pf...-28&dept_id=120
(IMG:http://www.classicchevy.com/Images/cci/49-28.jpg)
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mightyohm
post Jun 6 2006, 11:57 AM
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Hmm, "all-metal"...

Comes with a hardener, like bondo...

Sounds like bondo with shiny stuff mixed in... What's in it?
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Aaron Cox
post Jun 6 2006, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(jkeyzer @ Jun 6 2006, 10:57 AM) *

Hmm, "all-metal"...

Comes with a hardener, like bondo...

Sounds like bondo with shiny stuff mixed in... What's in it?


i think its kinda like that.... i think headrage has experience with it..
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tdgray
post Jun 6 2006, 12:04 PM
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I use all metal exlusively... look in progress thread.

It is ground alluminum. It is impervious to water and will not shrink.

You cannot buy better stuff than this.

Even better it is made in Canton OH... right near me.

HIGHLY Recommended.
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dkos
post Jun 6 2006, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Jun 6 2006, 01:53 PM) *

QUOTE(dkos @ Jun 6 2006, 10:42 AM) *

Aaron,

I googled "all metal" and nothing came up. Are you talking about "Lab-metal"? Anyone use Lab-metal for body work?

QUOTE(Aaron Cox @ Jun 6 2006, 12:08 PM) *

if you want metal...

look at "all metal" i think is what it is called...



you sure? cuz i googled it and it came right up...
http://www.classicchevy.com/product.asp?pf...-28&dept_id=120
(IMG:http://www.classicchevy.com/Images/cci/49-28.jpg)


I Goggled it again and nothin' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Oh well, thanks for the info. Eastwood has a similar sounding product called Metal To Metal.
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dkos
post Jun 6 2006, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(tdgray @ Jun 6 2006, 02:04 PM) *

I use all metal exlusively... look in progress thread.

It is ground alluminum. It is impervious to water and will not shrink.

You cannot buy better stuff than this.

Even better it is made in Canton OH... right near me.

HIGHLY Recommended.


Todd...awesome progress thread...I'm buying a can of All-Metal today!
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TravisNeff
post Jun 6 2006, 03:19 PM
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Just about any autobody paint store will carry it.
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Jun 6 2006, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 6 2006, 02:19 PM) *

Just about any autobody paint store will carry it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Got mine at NAPA.
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dkos
post Jun 6 2006, 03:23 PM
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link to USC (makers of All-Metal) website: <http://www.uschem.com/products/index.html>



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MecGen
post Jun 6 2006, 04:28 PM
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Hi

I have worked with the traditional lead (toxic) materials, and had the pleasure of working with a 65 year old tradesman and his "spoons" (were that old too), leading a 67 Firebird. I couldn't get it right, and if it is not applyed properly, its as bad as a shitty putty job.
Bigest problem with putty today is price, the stuff the shops use, well most, is double the price as the Walmart brand. Fillers are a fairly complicated composition, and aplication can make or break the job.
IMHO, go to Parts outlet and ask for quality filler, it can be done very well, and much easier the lead.

Good luck with it
Later

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DonTraver
post Jun 6 2006, 05:30 PM
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The problem with the cheap Walmart, Kragen, etc stuff is that's it's pourous, it will absorb water. When it does that you get rust between it and your metal. I've never used All Metal, but it sounds good, maybe next time. The Body Shop Supply store will carry the Non-pourous fillers. Go there and ask lots of questions. I've found they will be happy to answer them.

When you're ready to paint remember you're buying a system, the primers match the paints and clears. It's already figured out for you, how to mix, shoot, finish.

Good Luck, Don
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Katmanken
post Jun 6 2006, 06:31 PM
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I've done both ways and it just depends.....

If ya lead it, it definitely won't rust under the lead. Also, lead won't stick to rust so it is an indicator of how good a job you did on the rust removal..

If ya bondo it, better make sure if it is a waterproof variety...

Sometimes on those pissy places where the metal pits, I blast it, lead it to fill the pits, and smooth with a VERY THIN coat of waterproof bondo.

Did lead on the back of my trunk lid along the folded rear seam where you place your hand to lift.... Sucker was rusty and spreading the fold, so it was acid dipt and then sealed with lead. Won't have to mess with it again....

For really small rust holes or pits (or trunk seams) buy a really big soldering iron (mine is from Sears) and fill away

Ken
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