T4 Oil Pump Comparisons, Stock . Schadek . Melling Options

[McMark]

I was looking for information on the stock T4 oil pump and couldn't find anything helpful. So I disassembled on of mine today and took some comparison pictures.

Here is the stock pump:





Once you remove the four nuts on the back, you can use a 6mm x 1.0 bolt and a U shaped piece of steel to pull the guts:


In order to 'blueprint' this oil pump you would need to pull the four little studs, a small alignment ring, and then carefully mill the inside face of the body, thereby tightening the clearances between the flat sides of the gears and the body.

Schadek and Melling pumps are much easier to 'blueprint' because you can simply deck the face using something as simple as sandpaper on glass.

The stock pump does match up with the oiling bores in the case much better. Here is a stock pump. If you look closely, you can see the small variance: the case hole is slightly smaller than the pump hole.


Here is the Schadek pump body. Notice the much larger variance.


Finally, here are the numbers.

Body Height Measurement:
Total Height Measurement:

And finally, I'm not making any recommendations or judgements about anything here. This thread is simply about posting facts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DNHunt]

You can't full flow the stock pump as far as I can see.

Dave

[davep]

Exactly how do you define "full flow"?

[Joe Ricard]

Why would you want too.
Normally you full flow so you can run a bigger oil cooler. In order to runn a cooler you need more flow, and a stock pump will have trouble with that.

I port matched my oil pump that came with my kit.


Full flow ports oil out the front of the pump and enters the engine again at the main oil galley that you have to tap into.

[DNHunt]

All of the oil goes through the filter. With the stock oil system when the pressure gets very high the bypass valve in the oil filter mount lets unfiltered oil into the main oil passage. A type 1 pump allows an assortment of covers and it is possible to plumb to a remote filter and block off the stock filter. In this system all of the oil must be filtered.

The drawbacks are external lines, full oil pressure to the filter and another level of complication.

To be honest, it is possible to do full flow with the stock pump by tapping the galley plug between the oil pump and the oil filter mount and then blocking off the oil filter plumbing, but then the same issues that Mark raised with the stock pump are faced. It is tougher to blue print.

The Type 1 pump is not without problems. In addition to what Mark raised, to plumb it for full flow the outlet must be plugged. Cam bolts need to have the heads relieved or the pump housing needs to be relieved. If these procedures are not done, the cam gear bolts hit the pump. If it is an engine rebuild the best solution is to relieve the cam bolts. The pumps I have seen need to have the shaft that drives the pump off of the cam pressed into the gear a little farther, so there are plenty of places to screw up.

[type47]

where is/what is/ expand discussion on "small alignment ring". thanks

[Jake Raby]

The pumps I have seen need to have the shaft that drives the pump off of the cam pressed into the gear a little farther, so there are plenty of places to screw up.

Unless you purchase the modified TI pump from The Type 4 Store. We mod the pumps before shipping and offer full flow and non full flow versions.

The stock TIV pump can lead to engine failure when the lower pin inside the pump works loose and contacts the camshaft gear. This is the major reason why I haven't used a single stock oil pump in over 15 years.

[DNHunt]

Unless you purchase the modified TI pump from The Type 4 Store. We mod the pumps before shipping and offer full flow and non full flow versions.

Yep,

I'm aware of that. Just pointing out there is a potential problem.

Dave

[Joe Ricard]

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

[Mark Henry]

A full flow cover and modified engine mount.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-4-1082313177.jpg)

[McMark]

Yeah, the stocker is not the choice to make for a full flow setup. But not every engine needs to be full flow.

[Jake Raby]

Lose an engine with 250 miles on it because of a stock pump and you'll never use one again. the only stupid mistake is the one you make twice.

[McMark]

where is/what is/ expand discussion on "small alignment ring". thanks

[jhadler]

So...

Does anyone sell a full flow modified motor mount??? I see that Jake has a complete kit (including oil filter relocation), and that seems to be the route to go. But I didn't find a motor mount...

-Josh2

[Mark Henry]

Does anyone sell a full flow modified motor mount??? I see that Jake has a complete kit (including oil filter relocation), and that seems to be the route to go. But I didn't find a motor mount...

-Josh2

I did sell them (as in above pic), look on the last page of the vendors section, but it takes 2hrs each mount and I'd want almost double the money to even bother with one now.

[stevegm]

Before I order an oil pump, I just wanted to bounce this off of the collective wisdom of the world. It seems that the consensus is that the Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, Modified for Type 4 Engines, is the best option for a type IV engine. Is this right?

I have a 2056cc engine, and am not planning to run an external oil cooler, or anything.

Here is the link to the pump I am planning to order - http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Schadek-26mm-...khd-26mm-t4.htm

[SirAndy]

Holy thread necro! 8 years ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Valy]

I recommend getting an aluminum body type 1 pump, unless your type iv pump is good.

[Mark Henry]

It seems that the consensus is that the Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, Modified for Type 4 Engines, is the best option for a type IV engine. Is this right?

I have a 2056cc engine, and am not planning to run an external oil cooler, or anything.

[/url]

Yes, use the 26mm, the 30mm is too big without a pressure relief cover on smaller engines. The Melling pump for VW is a turd.
For quite a while now I've seen the pumps a bit spotty on the OD tolerances. I O-ring my pumps, but it is a PITA. I have experimented with a light coat of threebond on the rear edge of the case hole only, other side of the in/out case galleys, with no ill effects. If you try this don get any threebond in those galley holes.

[stevegm]

It seems that the consensus is that the Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, Modified for Type 4 Engines, is the best option for a type IV engine. Is this right?

I have a 2056cc engine, and am not planning to run an external oil cooler, or anything.

[/url]

Yes, use the 26mm, the 30mm is too big without a pressure relief cover on smaller engines. The Melling pump for VW is a turd.
For quite a while now I've seen the pumps a bit spotty on the OD tolerances. I O-ring my pumps, but it is a PITA. I have experimented with a light coat of threebond on the rear edge of the case hole only, other side of the in/out case galleys, with no ill effects. If you try this don get any threebond in those galley holes.

So it seems that the 26mm is no longer available. The type IV store has the 30mm, which is a type I pump that has been modified for use on a type iv. My engine is a 2.0 liter with a stock came, and larger pistons (2056cc). What is the issue with the 300mm being too larger? Other suggestions?