Make my car handle better, CHEAP!!!!!! Options

[ninefourteener]

Ok..... forgive me for buying / owning a teener that pretty much underwent a ground up restoration less than 10K before I bought it......... so I really haven't done anything "mechanical" to it at all..... only appearance upgrades.

But I'd like it to handle better.. you know, hold the curves tighter, less body roll, etc.

Anyone have any ideas on what to do that isn't going to break the bank? Maybe some tips? Tricks? Cheap parts? Where can I get them? Where do I start? Whats the easiest upgrade, and will produce the highest desired effect??

Look at it from the perspective of a car that the suspension is 100% original.... as mine is. I know there are a lot of auto Xers on here, so any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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[majkos]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Ha-ha-ha! Cheap! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Good one!
Wait I'll have another! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)
Just teasing! I've have good luck on e-bay,just beware WHAT you read.Anyhow I've scored on set's of Torsion bars 22mm,22mm front sways(Biggest improvement I may say,and on stock sways!)Running on 180 lbs rear spring,(personal prefrence) a lot of folks are on 140's,and hopefully your shocks are in pretty shape,you wouldn't need to shell out too much.BUT! Beware once you start playing with suspension,you run out of challeging roads nearby,and havin' a darn hard time staying at the speed limit! I know! Testing out my front suspenion,(On the way to the track)Duh!I wasn't paying attenion to the speedo,Got clocked 20 MPH way over the posted sign,Ouch in the wallet! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif)

[thesey914]

Has it got sway bars? what shocks does it have? Not sure there is anything "cheap" other than replacing all the bushes which should tighten it up and an alignment.
High performance=high cost is applicable to suspension too

[Steve]

If you want a good handling street car I would start with springs, torsion bars and sway bars.
Front
21mm torsion bars
22mm sway bar (weltmeister) or?
rear
140lb springs (Weltmeister) or?
stock rear sway bar??
Rear sway bar is usually only desirable with a six or with a stock front sway bar.
Some people only recommend a rear sway bar for the track if your running a limited slip diferential with a six.

Anything stiffer will make for a rough ride on the street.
Check ebay or classifieds for better deals on used parts.

regards,

Steve

Future Shocks
KYB cheapest
Koni or Bilstein more expensive

[agentblr]

Try adding some turbo tie rods$130,about 1/2 degree of negative camber up front,Koni inserts are the best but thats probably breaking the bank!You already have one of the best handling cars ever made,so minor suspension geometry tweaks go a long way

[ninefourteener]

Hmmm... maybe I should have elaborated a bit.... thanks for the responses though!!

The suspension is 100% stock. In addition, everything (bushings, springs, shocks) are less than 10K old.

When I say "cheap"....... I mean "reasonable"

Say 3 or 4 hundred bucks....... where would you start with a stock suspension that "needs" nothing, but you'd like to stiffen it up a bit..... then... where do I get it?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[jonwatts]

Find out (or tell us if you already know) what you have. You said suspension is 100% original. Do you mean original as in it's 30 years old or original in that all original spec parts were used during the restoration?

What year is the car?

Do you have swaybars? If not then even a stock front bar would be a great improvement but the installation is a bit involved; i.e. it's not a simple bolt-on part, drilling is required.

A rear swaybar is not as critical as the front. New coil springs will be your biggest bang-for-the-buck on the rear suspension.

Then there's new shock absorbers, upgraded suspensions bushings, front torsion bars, etc. I prefer to do things one piece at a time so you can feel how they affect handling and you learn more about your car. (worthless side note: the biggest and cheapest upgrade I made on my Corrado was a $70 front strut tower brace. I had no idea the strut towers would flex as much as they did with an engine and transmission bolted between them but this cheap and simple part made a huge initial improvement in how the car handled).

Notice I said I prefer to do things one at a time even tho I'm doing it all at once on my 914. The suspension was scary 30 year old stuff when I bought the thing so I didn't need have a good basis to work from but now I have no basis to know which upgrade did what to the handling characteristics (so I'm behind the learning curve).

As for costs, budget what's cheapest and then buy whatever you want. It's called living in denial and has worked well for me so far (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[agentblr]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) For a couple hundred I would first uprate the dampers (sorry shocks),bigger bars and springs are fine and danddy but the will hamper ride quality obviously!It depends on how tender your ass is.Remeber that 14s wre delivered with 17.9mmbars and 60 lbs rear springs,yeah thats right

[ninefourteener]

Find out (or tell us if you already know) what you have. You said suspension is 100% original. Do you mean original as in it's 30 years old or original in that all original spec parts were used during the restoration?

What year is the car?

Do you have swaybars? If not then even a stock front bar would be a great improvement but the installation is a bit involved; i.e. it's not a simple bolt-on part, drilling is required.

No.. the suspension was restored to original specs.

It's a 72... the only real modification (Other than appearance upgrades that I've done) was the new 2.0.

Swaybars?? Now I feel stupid.. because quite honestly.. I've never had to get under the car to look.

The "drilling" thing sounds a bit undesireable.... the car is running perfectly, and ready for summer. I'm really not looking to "break" the car temporarily if I don't absolutely need to.

Whats this strut tower brace? Do you have pics? You said for $70, it was the best upgrade you'd done? I'm interested......

You guys ROCK... God I love this site

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[Joe Bob]

Add a front sway bar....it requires tank removal...good time to replace those crappy 30 year old fuel lines that nobody ever sees.

RonK has a post on the skyrat board for some 930 18mm sway bars...he's my neighbor. 15mm was stock on a 914.

If I remember....both the stock 914 and early 930 sway bars are non adjustable....under/over steer was dialed in with rear spring variation....or with higher boost in the 930 case.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

After that, a good alignment and corner balance....

[jonwatts]

A '72 wouldn't (or shouldn't) have swaybars from the factory. It doesn't mean someone hasn't added one already.

Forget what I said about the strut tower brace, it doesn't apply to our cars. I was just making a point about a cheap upgrade on another car. Sorry for the confusion.

[jonwatts]

Oh, and I agree with Mikez (hi Mike!). Don't let the swaybar install stop you from adding one, it's completely worth it and you can do some fuel system maintenance while you're in there.

You not wanting to take your car off the road is entirely understandable but at some point a swaybar will be required for better handling. In the meantime springs and torsion bars are an easy install and will help you lower it and stiffen it up a bit, but there's only so much you can do with springs alone.

[majkos]

The stock front sway is fairly easy install.The hardest part is the actual drilling,armed with info.(Got mine from Pelican Parts)I did it in one day.Best time to clean the tank!Super easy! Oh yeah,One good advise,When ready to do the install,run the tank to near empty,less fuel to deal with when draining.

[Bleyseng]

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Cheapest add on would be a sway bar for the front, get the 21mm as you can set it loose to start. This will eliminate the front roll during turns.
Next is better than stock springs, atleast 140 if not 180lb springs.

Tires next, if you are running 165's change them fast to somthing else. Dropping down to a 205x50 or 205x55 will amaze you even if they are cheap tires. If you go to Dunlop SP9000's or similar the road will feel so sticky and more fun.


Geoff

[mskala]

No.. the suspension was restored to original specs.

This part is not clear to me. You realize that the only way that
NEW rubber bushings are in your suspension pieces are if the
restoration included NEW factory A-arms and trailing arms. I
know those are available but don't know how many people
do it. It is cheaper and better for the DIY'er to just get plastic
bushings and install them.

[Dave_Darling]

Screw all that! Y'all are forgetting the number one thing you can do to make your 914 handle better!

What's that, you say? Simple. Driver improvement. Track down the local people who autocross, and join them! You'll learn that your car is capable of things you never ever ever thought it could do--if you know how to help it.

Second step in handling improvements: Tires. A set of aggressive street tires in a good wide/short size will help handling very significantly. It might be a good idea to skip the short sidewall part of that, if you care about ride quality and keeping the gearing and speedo/odo readings the same, but going to short sidewalls on a street tires really affects the handling significantly! As does going wider, and going to an aggressive tread compound. Maybe even Yoko A023R tires, which are not street tires but can be lived with for a while. (They'll wear out quickly, puncture relatively easily, they're noisy as hell, and they're allergic to standing water, but boy do they grip!!!)

After that, I think an alignment. Not as much $$ as tires, but less effect. Do not get a racing alignment, though. Let me repeat that: DO NOT GET A RACING ALIGNMENT! Get something intended for moderately-aggressive street driving. A full race-car alignment will make the car very difficult to control when simply driving around; you will have to focus on driving the car every second it is moving or it will get away from you. It will also not grip as well as a less-aggressive alignment when you are not pushing the car hard. Something with about a degree of negative camber in the back, a half-degree in front (or up to a degree, possibly), max caster angle, and a bit of toe-in on all four wheels should be pretty nice, and won't hurt tire life too badly.

Next up on the list, for me, would be the front sway bar. An adjustable one is nice because it lets you tweak the balance of the car (oversteer/understeer), but even the small non-adjustable stock front bar will give you a very noticeable improvement! (Helps keep you from scraping the chrome off your door handles, too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) I'd go stock or a smaller adjustable (e.g., 19mm) bar if you are keeping the stock rear springs or something close, like 100 lbs/in.

Springs would be next after the front sway.

Note that if you know you have the budget to get as far as the front sway bar, or both that and the springs, do them before you do the alignment. Installing them can affect the alignment (particularly if the springs make the back of the car lower than before) so you will at least want to have it checked afterwards.

Anyway, the above is my list, in the order I would do them with an increasing budget.

--DD

[majkos]

Well Duh!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Dave,You're the one who helped out Big time when I've done my Front sway installation,many many moons ago! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) I'm forever in your debt! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

[ninefourteener]

Wow.. I think I learned more in the past 30 minutes than I have in thew past 3 months.

I'm going to go with a new set of springs first.... that seems to be what everyone is suggesting. Perhaps down the road (after the summer) I'll start digging into a new sway bar.

My ass is pretty tough.... but I do drive the car A LOT in the summer, are the 180s gonna kill me on the road? Would 140's be better for a 100% street car?

I drove a fully auto X'ed teener once, and if I didn't have the harness on, that thing would have damn near bumped clean out the top of the car after every little bump in the road. Not sure what springs it had on it, but I definately don't want that.

As for my tires.... I'm already running a 205, so I can't go too much bigger than that.

"fun" factor must exceed the "performance" factor... so 140's or 180's???

Suggestions on who to buy them from?

[ninefourteener]

This is all I found on the bay after a quick search..... not exactly what I'm looking for.. plus it doesn't say what level they are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=33582

[agentblr]

You guys are nuts! 140s 180 springs for a street driven 914-4. In run 100lbs on my 914-6 and that will loosen fillings,of course the roads in Kansas City suck