starter woes Options

[boeserbaer]

I have a 1974 2.0L. It has sat for a while, and I am trying to get it up to daily driver level. Presently my starter is intermittent. Symptom: turn key, and voltmeter drops, fuel pump cycles, no turnnover. It seems that the starter is creating a load, but not functioning. Then it will work every time for a while, then I get out on the road (bay area to LA), and my girlfriend is push starting me. On that subject I ran into the BEST porsche shop ever in torrance "callas rennsport". I vaguely recollect the same symptoms a few years ago, and replacing the ignition switch, does this sound right? If so It sucks to have to do it again so soon. I think that a relay or something is needed to reduce the current through the key switch?

[underthetire]

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Just having gone through 4 starters from insert chain store here_________
Sounds like you have a bad solenoid to me. There is a "hot start" relay kit available for these, my original starter had one. After getting tired of changing starters, I got a refund and bought a Bosch rebuild, no more problems, no more hot start relay.

[Kirmizi]

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Yes it could be the switch and yes, it could be the solenoid.
Does the "no start" condition occur after driving for awhile, then starts right up after sitting? That could be infamous no "Hot Start".
If the problem happens intermittently, with no rhyme or reason, I'd suspect your ignition switch.
I'd begin with checking wires and connections along the current path.
If you find it's the switch, don't buy one of the cheap ones, get an OEM replacement.
Mike

[boeserbaer]

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Yes it could be the switch and yes, it could be the solenoid.
Does the "no start" condition occur after driving for awhile, then starts right up after sitting? That could be infamous no "Hot Start".
If the problem happens intermittently, with no rhyme or reason, I'd suspect your ignition switch.
I'd begin with checking wires and connections along the current path.
If you find it's the switch, don't buy one of the cheap ones, get an OEM replacement.
Mike

The problem occurs after hot, but for some period it wored, then failed "hot" then kept failing, then worked for a day or 2 of around town then failed on my trip to LA, and keeps not working. I just found the pelican parts starter switch install/starter debug guide, and will go through it.

is the "Meistersatz" electrical portion a cheap one ($8.50)? It is all Pelican seems to have.

Mike

[rick 918-S]

The hot start solenoid is a work-around for another problem. Start with cleaning and checking all the cabling including the transaxle ground strap. Sometimes when cars sit the cables will corrode inside the sheathing and replaceing the cables with new cables solves the problem. Back cables will also overlaod the switch contacts. Also check the relay board connections.

[Kirmizi]

That sounds like the switch to me.
My first replacement switch was an Electrix, caused more problems than the cracked original. I wound up buying an OEM replacement from GPR. (Shameless plug. Thanks Jonathan!)
I'd still start by checking wires, connections and grounds.
Mike

[Dr. Roger]

when you mention a voltage drop when trying to turn it over, that indicates either a bad ground/connection at the battery/starter.... or you have a battery that is about to die.

clean contacts everywhere including at the batt.

LOAD TEST the battery.

50/50 it's one or the other. I've got $0.02 on this diagnosis.


My question to you is where are you taking the voltage reading? right on the battery posts? if so, it's your battery.
No, then it could be the other two issues.


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[McMark]

Sounds like a bad starter to me as well, but could be:

1. Starter
2. Ignition Switch
3. Transmission Ground Strap
4. Positive Battery Cable
5. Battery
6. Relay Board
7. Something even more obscure

[boeserbaer]

when you mention a voltage drop when trying to turn it over, that indicates either a bad ground/connection at the battery/starter.... or you have a battery that is about to die.

clean contacts everywhere including at the batt.

LOAD TEST the battery.

50/50 it's one or the other. I've got $0.02 on this diagnosis.


My question to you is where are you taking the voltage reading? right on the battery posts? if so, it's your battery.
No, then it could be the other two issues.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am looking at my center console voltmeter (which also shows drops whenever my brake lights come on... Obviously there is excessive resistance (either internal battery, or external wiring/contact). I will be cleaning this afternoon.
Does anyone know what drop to expect across the battery posts from either headlights or brake lamps?
Also my 74 has been modified, and the seat belt relay/ckt removed. The ignition switch directly drives the solenoid (unless there is a relay behind the firewall?) This seems like bad practice due to back emf arcing the switch. Is this the normal way the starter ckt operates on non-1974 models? I am inclined to put a hot start relay in with a snubber diode/capacitor to protect the switch.

[Kirmizi]

If your seat belt relay (beneath the passenger seat) has been removed, there should be a yellow wire crimped to a yellow wire with red stripe IIRC.
This was the method for bypassing that relay in the starter circuit.
Mike

[underthetire]

Ignore the voltage gauge on the center console. They all do that with brake/turn lamps etc. All your doing with the ignition switch is powering a solenoid. Not like its 100Amps or anything.

[Ian Stott]

Cleaning wiring connections and fuse box connections made a huge difference in my car and I have seen it recommended over and over again on this site, time consuming but no $ involved. If you still have the problem at least you know what it isn't plus you learn about your car doing it.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

[Dr. Roger]

Wazup?

How'd it go? What did you find?

when you mention a voltage drop when trying to turn it over, that indicates either a bad ground/connection at the battery/starter.... or you have a battery that is about to die.

clean contacts everywhere including at the batt.

LOAD TEST the battery.

50/50 it's one or the other. I've got $0.02 on this diagnosis.


My question to you is where are you taking the voltage reading? right on the battery posts? if so, it's your battery.
No, then it could be the other two issues.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am looking at my center console voltmeter (which also shows drops whenever my brake lights come on... Obviously there is excessive resistance (either internal battery, or external wiring/contact). I will be cleaning this afternoon.
Does anyone know what drop to expect across the battery posts from either headlights or brake lamps?
Also my 74 has been modified, and the seat belt relay/ckt removed. The ignition switch directly drives the solenoid (unless there is a relay behind the firewall?) This seems like bad practice due to back emf arcing the switch. Is this the normal way the starter ckt operates on non-1974 models? I am inclined to put a hot start relay in with a snubber diode/capacitor to protect the switch.