karlo's 914 V8 adventures, ... and misadventures Options

[karlo]

Hi all!

Real short introduction. I'm on a three month leave here in San Diego, with my wife and 3 month old daughter. I live in Norway, but my American wife has family here, and winter is a great time to visit. It gets cold in Norway... I have a BMW 635CSi and a Citroen SM in Norway, but that's a different topic altogether.

On to business. I have a 1974 914 (4742921095) that has been an AX car for the last ten years. My plan is to make the car more presentable--when I got it, it was quite rough. It's an SBC V8 build with a 915 transaxle and various 911 suspension parts. More about that later. The car doesn't look so good right now, in particular I don't like the flares, so I'm going to do a fairly thorough restoration. Not too much rust on the car, but it probably needs dealing with anyways. Here's the beauty:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/people.opera.com-10999-1290399407.1.JPG)

I bought this car from nocones last year, and it's been sitting for most of that time, due to a broken transmission (and also I've been back in Norway). During some fairly normal driving, it popped out of third gear and self destructed. I wasn't in the car at the time, so I'm not really sure what happened. Only inspection will tell.

So, out the trans comes.



Unscrewed the drain plug. This does not bode well:



More carnage is visible once the nosecone is off:



I need bigger tools to get the fifth gear and reverse off, so I can't get to the innards where the real action is right now. Will investigate that tomorrow. I found parts of what I suspect is a grenaded second gear. It remains to be seen whether the transmission is a lost cause. Input is appreciated. Maybe I should just get a 930 and be done with it...

More tomorrow.

- Karl

[sean_v8_914]

Jackque at scotts porsche has a donor 915 for parts or sean at autobahn. you are here in SD, right? stop by my shop and I'll pop 5th and reverse for ya.
7323 el cajon blvd in la mesa

[karlo]

Yep, located at Rancho Peñasquitos. Maybe I'll stop by tomorrow!

- Karl

[karlo]

Got hold of some bigger tools, and pulled off 5th and reverse to inspect the internals. Hello Mr. Second Gear. Here's what it looks like after I pieced together the remains.



At the green arrow, there's a big indentation in the gear. The current hypothesis is that a dog tooth broke loose and made its way into 2nd gear, leaving the witness mark and shattering the gear. Inspecting the 3rd gear synchro, reveals that there's indeed a dog tooth missing.

Looking at the backside of the gear reveals fracture lines (one at the green arrow). By the looks of it, these appear to have been there quite a while, but I may be mistaken.



Didn't snap any pictures of the shafts before it got dark, but the second gear is obviously toast, the third gear has damage, along with its synchro. Will get some pictures of that tomorrow.

I popped down to sean_v8_914's new hq to get a second opinion on the carnage. He was super nice and we hung around chatting for a while. He thought the trans wasn't that bad, and could be brought back in service with some new gears and synchros. He's going to make some phone calls to see if anyone has some useable parts lying around. Anyone else have any surplus gears I could use?

- Karl

[karlo]

Caught a cold today, so nothing of interest happening. Found a guy in Oceanside who might have some gear stacks that I can scrounge. Didn't get hold of Sean to see what he has found.

Here's the gear stacks with broken parts. Broken dogtooth in the middle of the picture.



Damaged gears. 2nd, 3rd and 4th will have to be changed.



The dog teeth generally look quite worn, which probably is why it popped out of gear in the first place.

More when I know more.

- Karl

[Dr Evil]

Your slider is worn, that is why it popped out most likely and broke the dog tooth. There is a needle bearing missing its needles there as well. That is what was stuck to the magnet.

[karlo]

Thanks for the insight. That's what I'm thinking as well, but it's good to have the experts weigh in. It doesn't look like the transmission was in the best of conditions before this happened.

- Karl

[karlo]

The Oceanside lead turned up empty, so no help there.

Considering downgrading to a 901 so I can drive the car while I fix the 915 or get another transaxle. Does anyone know if I can bolt the 901 straight on, or will I run into issues with the flywheel and clutch?

- Karl

[karlo]

Digging into rust issues while I'm considering my transaxle options. The car has been a California car all its life, so the rust hasn't consumed the car completely, but there is some to be found.

The driver's side hell hole has had standing water, due to the drain hole being plugged with a plastic plug. Is this how it's supposed to be? It's rusted pretty well, but seems to have survived.

The passenger sider hell hole is somewhat worse. Pretty bad pitting, but so far no holes in the long. How pitted can it be before I should replace it? Firewall, engine shelf and wheel well panel has holes, though.

Pictures to follow.

[brilliantrot]

I would also suggest that you replace the main shaft while you have the trans apart for the updated/stronger 3.0L 915 main shaft. I had the same style that you have in my 911 and just broke all the gear stops off the main shaft with a stock 3.0L six. Granted the car is primarily a race car and sees quite a few hard launches on slicks but it is worth considering with the torque of a V8. Mine was caught about one launch away from shooting the gears out the end of the trans.

With all the parts you are looking at replacing, it is probably worth the gamble to just buy another used trans.

[SirAndy]

The driver's side hell hole has had standing water, due to the drain hole being plugged with a plastic plug. Is this how it's supposed to be? It's rusted pretty well, but seems to have survived.

Yes and no.

Yes, there is a plastic plug. No, it's not supposed to hold water.

There are actually two plastic plugs, one larger one is for the /6 oil return line and is a solid plug. The smaller is a drain-plug that has a hole/slit in it to allow water to drain out of that area.
Those plugs usually get all blocked up with dirt. You can either try to clean it or do what most of us do and remove those completely allowing for the water to drain freely.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[karlo]

There are actually two plastic plugs, one larger one is for the /6 oil return line and is a solid plug. The smaller is a drain-plug that has a hole/slit in it to allow water to drain out of that area.
Those plugs usually get all blocked up with dirt. You can either try to clean it or do what most of us do and remove those completely allowing for the water to drain freely.

Pfft, that's the one.



Solid with crap. Forgetting to put that in 30+ years ago would have saved me some rust issues now.

[karlo]

Pictures of the hell holes, as promised, treated a few times with Naval Jelly. Driver's side doesn't look so nice, but seems to hold up. Engine shelf has holes, but I don't need the shelf itself, so I'm not so worried about that.



Passenger side is a little worse. The pitting is more obvious, but no holes so far. All surrounding panels have holes, though.

[karlo]

Rust removal continues. Have been derusting the hell hole and various other places. After a few days I finally found a hole in the long:



Further up, things appear to be in fair condition, the gray stuff is zinc primer over completely derusted metal. At this stage, some welding is required, so further derusting is pointless.

On the left hand side, things went a little better. I found two pin holes, but otherwise it seems to be pretty solid. I'll be getting an expert opinion on this when I get the car on all four wheels again. The engine shelf is toast, but that will be deleted in any case.



There appears to have been some leakage of water into the long, however. Under the jack post, the long has rusted through, probably from the inside. It's not very obvious from the picture, may have to snap another one:



Otherwise, collecting 915 parts. Getting a big delivery tomorrow.

[sean_v8_914]

...and the vertical wall (inner wheel house)behind the battery is a sheer panel. it helps keep the chassis box section (longitudinal) from flexing. while the vertical sides of the long keep things staight, the top and bottom of the long carry the load of flex in teh vertical plane. think I beam

[sean_v8_914]

snap a photo of the seam under teh hell hole. the bottom of the car where the 2 clam shells come together to form teh box

regardless, I would cut open that deeply pitted top of teh long from teh fire wall 12 inches back , up to the clean metal. cut off the lower fire wall, cut off teh engien shelf. once the long is open, you can treat the minimal surface rust you are going to find in there.

I doubt the jack point to be structurally compromising the long based on these photos but it is structurally important so carefull inspection will follow

once the top of the long is cut open we can inspect the jack point from teh inside

[karlo]

Got a better picture of the underside of the LHS long:



The underside of the RHS long appears to be better, but I have the car sitting on a tire on that side, so I haven't been able to dig into it too much. A cursory glance at the seam doesn't reveal anything too disturbing.



The jackpost on this side is not good, and will have to be changed. Hard to say if the damage is coming from the inside of the long, but it doesn't look like it.

[sean_v8_914]

viva la plasma cutter

[karlo]

Sounds like I need to pay you a visit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Need to fix the transaxle first, so the car can be moved. I believe I have all the parts to fix it now.

[sean_v8_914]

it is MUCH better to do the chassis work while the motor is out. I have a trailer and a flat tow rig. I prefer flat towing for pre-75 big bumper cars.

we should psot ipcs of what we find inside teh long. i dont think it wil be too horrible but I do see rust between the 2 layers of metal on teh bottom. there is an inner C chanel stiffener that is wrapped in teh thinner outer skin that we actually see

doesnt someoen here have an expoded view of teh longs they could post for reference of discussion?