front a arm bushings, update: URO bushings installed thanks PMB Options

[silver74insocal]

ive searched and cant find any feed back on these (other then 2 less then favorable reviews on the bird site)

the price is right but is it worth the hassle? mine are pretty mushroomed so i think anything is better then what ive got...but i am on a budget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
any feed back on these would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Dave

[detoxcowboy]

I did not like them, polygraphite has to be precision bored to fit right like a bearing, they need to slip as they are NOT static like the rubber ones. Delrin is better but also need to be precisely bored to fit for same reason.. The rubber ones at Pelican are expensive but quality and rubber is static so they just sort of twist and not slip fit like a bearing.

Here is a rubber set that is not hundreds of dollars, but about $60 for the budget/ the poly graphite used to be $70 when they first came out, and people did have problems..

http://www.automotion.com/neatrix-front-a-...or-porsche.html

and another source oem ect..
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/store...tail&p=3638



I tried both poly graphite and delrin and did the home boring (should have went to a machine shop) with a brake hone and had rattling on a couple, and on the other set I did not bore enough and the supsension would not move or do not listen to the lie that they will break in after 30 days, I needed a kidney belt after one 3 hour drive trying to break them in..

Then there is the issue of sag and how long will plastic of any type really hold up or last? At first they sold as the ultimate and now well the price is dirt cheap and everything else speaks for itself.. Rubber stock lasted this long, so probabaly get a good run out of more rubber..

Oh and one hint fire is your friend, torch out the old ones if you can't get them loose... Lot's of dish soap and water to get the new ones on, I did not have a vice big enough so I used long plastic clamps that have a hand squeeze trigger like you would buy at home depot.. and make certain they are on all the way before the soap starts to dry and they get stuck solid.. quick! firm! slippery! you can put them on the car immeadiately if your carefull not to lose position that way you can check that they are indexed properly for fit and function, then I waited overnight before I drove, perfect ever since..

It was alot of work for me to do the whole car 3 times, but I must say I am happy with the rubber and it gives a softer stock ride..

The other is more like a dance when done correctly I am told.. But I will probably never know.

[silver74insocal]

thanks detox!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) exactly what i was looking for
holy crap!! sierra madre has a $245 rubber bushing!!

[jcd914]

I have good luck with the polygraphite bushing. They do have to be fit to the arms and that is time consuming and over time (years) they will distort. I use a standard abrasives flap wheel to 'hone' the inside of the bushing after they have been force fit into the bushing cups/holders. You have to go slow and allow the bushing to cool before you test the fit since the plastic swells with the heat generated by the flap wheel.

I used to add grease zerks and a groove but quit when I started using a Teflon based grease, I think it is the same as the Weltmiester Plastic Bushing grease but I'm not sure. Mine came in white 8 oz tubs with no label. It is the stickiest grease I have ever come across.

I have not tried the Neatrix front a-arm bushings but have used OE rubber bushings on a few cars, didn't know you could still get the OE. I used a press, some tapered wood dowels and dish soap to get the rubber bushing to go into place. I actually assisted Dwight Mitchell with the design and testing of the Neatrix rubber rear spring plate bushings and have installed several sets of them. I don't know if Performance Products has made any changes since they took over distribution of the Neatrix bushings.

There is a strong following here for the Elephant bushings and the FreeMotion bearings and both have good rep for quality but I have not installed either of them.

Jim

[kconway]

I did the Elephant Racing rubber bushings front and rear. Front set was $225 and is stock ride.

[Eric_Shea]

These are kinda pricey but they will last.

http://www.automotion.com/front-a-arm-bush...or-porsche.html

That is the same company that makes the PP bushings but, this is their harder compound (which I don't think PP carries). It will give you a harsh ride and will not mushroom over the years. If installed properly they're excellent but... you have to work them to get them to fit the arms.

The standard compound that PP sells is soft and will mushroom in a couple of years. They squeak really bad unless you add zerks. The ones above need zerks as well.

I think I have a set of those rubber ones that Joe posted in his first link hanging around here... cheap. About 1/2 of what Automotion wants for them. That might be in your budget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Besides being on a budget, what do you want to do with your car? Street?

[Als914]

ive searched and cant find any feed back on these (other then 2 less then favorable reviews on the bird site)

the price is right but is it worth the hassle? mine are pretty mushroomed so i think anything is better then what ive got...but i am on a budget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
any feed back on these would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Dave

Hey Dave,

I am thinking of doing the same with my car but I was leaning towards these from Elephant http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/b...914bushings.htm. I don't no anyone who has run them but am seeking out the info. The install seems pritty streight foward.

Al

[Eric_Shea]

There's a ton of people here running them.

I have them on my 911. I'd be willing to tell you the truth as well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I wouldn't recommend them for a street car. The Elephant "rubber" bushings are perfect for a street car.

While these give you a precision feel, there is no mistaking the fact that you no longer have 1/4" of rubber (or more) between your suspension and your body.

Here comes the rest of the responses... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[BuddyV]

I had the hard plastic-type bushings on my car that were installed improperly.... they were squeeky and bone-jarring stiff.

I just had my mechanic install the PP rubber set that I had ordered a while back and forgotten about (front A-arm). he made sure they were installed and greased properly, etc. The ride is NIGHT and DAY!!!

Whatever you do, make sure the installation is proper for the application. Seems logical, but I have heard from so many users that did not install their selected application properly.

For street driving, I couldn't imagine a better value... but I can't say how long they will hold up.

Good luck.

ps - I was saving for the Elephant bronze bushings.... but never saved the funds to justify the expense. Seems the ride may have been a bit rough from what people write. Although the technology seems cool.

[silver74insocal]

great responses as usual fellas! i should have mentioned it is a street car .

also that i dont have sway bars...

[silver74insocal]

I think I have a set of those rubber ones that Joe posted in his first link hanging around here... cheap. About 1/2 of what Automotion wants for them. That might be in your budget (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Besides being on a budget, what do you want to do with your car? Street?

are you referring to the Neatrix bushings?
i plan on installing these with the bilstees i got from you(thanks again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif))
and the bearing set you hooked me up with...Dave

[Als914]

There's a ton of people here running them.

I have them on my 911. I'd be willing to tell you the truth as well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I wouldn't recommend them for a street car. The Elephant "rubber" bushings are perfect for a street car.

While these give you a precision feel, there is no mistaking the fact that you no longer have 1/4" of rubber (or more) between your suspension and your body.

Here's come the rest of the responses... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Thanks Eric, thats what I suspected would be the case. Maybe I will stick with rubber.

[silver74insocal]

I had the hard plastic-type bushings on my car that were installed improperly.... they were squeeky and bone-jarring stiff.

I just had my mechanic install the PP rubber set that I had ordered a while back and forgotten about (front A-arm). he made sure they were installed and greased properly, etc. The ride is NIGHT and DAY!!!

Whatever you do, make sure the installation is proper for the application. Seems logical, but I have heard from so many users that did not install their selected application properly.

Can you elaborate on how these installations were improper? was it the lack of, or installation of zirks? or and indexing issue? did they not seat correctly? thanks ,Dave

[Eric_Shea]

I tend to use the "Pareto principle" these days:

80% Street 20% Track - The new rubber systems are the ones to go with.

80% Track 20% Street - Use a solid bushing that will afford better suspension geometry for track. There are a lot of choices but the Elepants are some of the best.

With the advent of new rubber for these cars, that's my first recommendation.

I mentioned I'd tell the truth because I think a lot of people on BBS sites talk with their wallet. "It must be great because I just spent a lot of money on it" E.G.: There was a thread here last year where one of the members (who shall remain nameless) was bragging about how sweet the Elephants were and how well they worked, how perfect they were for street cars etc. and how happy he was with his purchase. A month later he ironically started a thread detailing his "installation" of said bushings. Bottom line, he didn't even have them on his car but was more than willing to talk like he did and advise others.

Again, I have them (Elephant PolyBronze) on my car and they work "extremely" well and do everything and more that they are claimed to do. That said, I will switch over to the Elephant rubber one of these days. There's a subtle "compliance" as you enter a driveway apron or tag a slightly lowered manhole cover that you miss with hard bushings. That said, the Elephants and Freemotions etc. allow the suspension to move freely with no binding.

As mentioned herein... choose wisely.

are you referring to the Neatrix bushings?

It looks like that's what "they" call them (I think that's a name that Performance/Automotion coined for their bushings... same goes for their DayStar bushings... the call those Neatrix as well) but those are URO rubber bushings that are widely available now.

I'll have to check the shelf to see if I have them. I think that would be your best bet for the money.

[silver74insocal]

thats perfect Eric thanks...lemme know and i will take them.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) i should probably do the rear as well..heck...i already have replacement springs and shocks that need to go on...
deeper into the rabbit hole i go!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

thank again guys and happy holidays (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

new thread to follow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Dave

[r_towle]

I went from stock old worn out bushings to two sets of plastic bushings...plastic just sucks. I went through two sets.
Yes they were not the special compound...
All that means is they will last longer.
They still squeak.
I did honing and zerk fittings...they still sucked.
I ended up going all the way to the linear bearings. Frustrated.
I love the bearing BTW...awesome setup.
Those are sweet, expensive and you feel the bugs you run over at night...

If I had to do it again (and I dont on this car) I would go for the new rubber ones....you need some give in the suspension or you end up re-tightening ever single nut and bolt on your car several times per year...
I do, and that is ok because I drive it to and from the events....and I am the 80/20 rule leaning more towards competitive events.

Rubber has give...nothing else on the market today has any give.
I tuned my sons suspension with really stiff struts, springs, shocks and sway bars...but with the rubber bushings.
I loved how his car felt versus the bearings I have.
I do like my car in competition better than his, but I could easily learn to drive the rubber bushing car to its peak....

My next car will have rubber...no need to change a decent design.
You can get really stiff springs and struts...and learn how to deal with the rubber.
When I did it, we had plastic or bearings...nothing in between, and no rubber was available.
I most likely would have chosen the bronze setup from elephant if it was available versus plastic or bearings.

I think the bearings are top of the line competition only setup.
Bronze is second to that....again competition setup.
Plastic is third for competition and plan to replace them every year or two...and that is ok considering they are cheap.

For street, rubber is king, or leave the ones you ahve on there and drive it...they are not always so bad that you really need to replace them...at least until you know why you are doing it...or you can feel the difference in competition.
Mine were falling apart due to fatigue.

Rich

[dion9146]

My next car will have rubber...no need to change a decent design.
You can get really stiff springs and struts...and learn how to deal with the rubber.
When I did it, we had plastic or bearings...nothing in between, and no rubber was available.

For street, rubber is king, or leave the ones you ahve on there and drive it...they are not always so bad that you really need to replace them...at least until you know why you are doing it...or you can feel the difference in competition.
Mine were falling apart due to fatigue.

Rich

Great post Rich. I know every square inch of a 914, and have done just about everything you could imagine on these cars....except.....the bushings. This has been on my bucket list for a couple of years now. As far as I know, the bushings on my car were installed in Germany, and I'd like to replace them with rubber for all of the reasons you suggested. However, is there a method for determining just how bad the bushings might be with removing the suspension?

I can't complain at all regarding my car's handling, but I've also gotten used to it over the past 5 years, so I may not know what I'm missing if you know what I mean.

Dion

[Eric_Shea]

However, is there a method for determining just how bad the bushings might be with removing the suspension?

You can measure them... top and bottom. Check the difference.

[Eric_Shea]

Found'em...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45IvTOZxtBE

I'll send a PM...

[detoxcowboy]

"I went from stock old worn out bushings to two sets of plastic bushings...plastic just sucks. I went through two sets.
Yes they were not the special compound...
All that means is they will last longer.
They still squeak." quoted form Towle

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I did the same and even used the "sport" version and still had same experience. Plastic is for toys.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)