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> Emission free 914, Electric 914
914-300Hemi
post Sep 8 2013, 03:30 PM
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Found this article about a electric 914 taking on the snake in LA.
http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130903-po...e-914-energised
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trojanhorsepower
post Sep 8 2013, 03:57 PM
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Cool!
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Cap'n Krusty
post Sep 8 2013, 04:34 PM
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"Emission free"? What about the 40% of So Cal's electrical power that comes from coal fired power plants?

The Cap'n
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ruddyboys
post Sep 8 2013, 04:37 PM
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what would the cost be to convert to electric?
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damesandhotrods
post Sep 8 2013, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE(ruddyboys @ Sep 8 2013, 03:37 PM) *

what would the cost be to convert to electric?




The article says that he did the work himself and spent $18,000 on the conversion…
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yeahmag
post Sep 8 2013, 08:21 PM
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The things people always miss with that argument are two fold:

* Efficiency
* Number of tail pipes

I've done the math as I was heavily involved in the Caltech EV Club and a good friend works for CARB. I still race and personally drive conventional cars, but only because I'm balancing the amount I drive vs. the price I need to buy in. As someone once said, "It's easier to tame one "tail pipe" than it is millions." And there is no debating the efficiency of an electric motor for transportation vs. a gas motor.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 8 2013, 03:34 PM) *

"Emission free"? What about the 40% of So Cal's electrical power that comes from coal fired power plants?

The Cap'n
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nsyr
post Sep 9 2013, 09:44 AM
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seems to me the claim was "Emissions free", not efficiency.
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Elliot Cannon
post Sep 9 2013, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 8 2013, 03:34 PM) *

"Emission free"? What about the 40% of So Cal's electrical power that comes from coal fired power plants?

The Cap'n

According to the coal industry, coal is a "clean burning" fuel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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Elliot Cannon
post Sep 9 2013, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE(nsyr @ Sep 9 2013, 08:44 AM) *

seems to me the claim was "Emissions free", not efficiency.

That's correct. The car itself is emissions free. There aren't ANY emissions free power sources with the exception of solar power. No one will do any serious research into solar because there isn't as much profit as refining oil.
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worn
post Sep 9 2013, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 8 2013, 02:34 PM) *

"Emission free"? What about the 40% of So Cal's electrical power that comes from coal fired power plants?

The Cap'n


Not to mention the massive loss in transmission. These things are both fuel guzzlers and uber polluters. Take this from someone who works in environmental toxicology. Also they are more dangerous than normal cars because they hit people (pedestrians). BUT, they do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) in someone else's yard and keep their own clean.
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stugray
post Sep 9 2013, 12:15 PM
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I remember when the Prius first came out.
A study was done for "cradle to grave" and the impact to the environment of manufacture, operation, and recycling.
They compared a Prius to a Hummer H2.

Guess which one was more "environmentally friendly"?

Now that the NiCad battery packs are essentially extinct, it is different......
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Cap'n Krusty
post Sep 9 2013, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Sep 9 2013, 09:20 AM) *

QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Sep 8 2013, 03:34 PM) *

"Emission free"? What about the 40% of So Cal's electrical power that comes from coal fired power plants?

The Cap'n

According to the coal industry, coal is a "clean burning" fuel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)


Tell that to the residents of Shiprock, NM ....................

The Cap'n
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SirAndy
post Sep 9 2013, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Sep 9 2013, 09:28 AM) *
There aren't ANY emissions free power sources with the exception of solar power.

And to make this even more confusing, all fossil fuels are stored solar energy ...
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BKLA
post Sep 9 2013, 02:11 PM
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Having lived with a 100% electric now for a year (a Think City), I can say that I am a convert. 16K miles (my wife commutes a lot) about 50 miles a day equates to about $8/week in electrical costs. (Wind, hydro & gas up here)

Not saying there aren't compromises, but as a commuter that handles 95% of our transportation needs - it works for us.

If I had to replace the Li-ion battery today, it wouldn't be cheap, but in ten years, and 160,000 miles figured into it - still far better than $3.50/gal gas.

with that said, my 43 year old (gas) 914 has a better environmental impact ratio than a new Prius.
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JmuRiz
post Sep 9 2013, 02:49 PM
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I know MIT still has an electric 914 in their classroom/lab/shop. Saw it there last year when up visiting a friend.
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stugray
post Sep 9 2013, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE
And to make this even more confusing, all fossil fuels are stored solar energy ...


Not really... because "Fossil Fuels" did not really all come from fossils.

Oil is primordial "goo" that is naturally occurring even in places where there was never any life.

Stu
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SirAndy
post Sep 9 2013, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE(stugray @ Sep 9 2013, 02:35 PM) *
Oil is primordial "goo" that is naturally occurring even in places where there was never any life.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil

"Crude oil originates from ancient fossilized organic materials, such as zooplankton and algae, which geochemical processes convert into oil."


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r_towle
post Sep 9 2013, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Sep 9 2013, 05:53 PM) *

QUOTE(stugray @ Sep 9 2013, 02:35 PM) *
Oil is primordial "goo" that is naturally occurring even in places where there was never any life.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil

"Crude oil originates from ancient fossilized organic materials, such as zooplankton and algae, which geochemical processes convert into oil."


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

all grown (as you said before) from the energy of the sun.

Which law is this? Energy is not created, just transformed.

Rich
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r3dplanet
post Sep 9 2013, 03:58 PM
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What?

There's this new thing called organic chemistry. You should check it out. From the UC Davis Chemistry department:

"It takes about 250-500 million years for fossil fuels to form. The process takes such a long time because fossil fuels are formed from fossilized remnants of plants and animals deep in the Earth's crust. Heat and pressure, out of contact with air, can transform the decomposed material into little sacks of gas and unrefined oil. The oil and gas then moves through the small holes of space in the rocks to eventually collect in reservoirs. Coal comes mainly from dead plants, much like the other two fossil fuels, which have been buried and compacted below the surface of the Earth."


QUOTE(stugray @ Sep 9 2013, 02:35 PM) *

QUOTE
And to make this even more confusing, all fossil fuels are stored solar energy ...


Not really... because "Fossil Fuels" did not really all come from fossils.

Oil is primordial "goo" that is naturally occurring even in places where there was never any life.

Stu
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stugray
post Sep 9 2013, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE
"Crude oil originates from ancient fossilized organic materials,


Wikipedia is wrong.

Tell me then where did all the hydrocarbons (oceans of methane & ethane) come from on Titan (moon of Saturn)?

I suppose from all of the dinosaurs that used to roam Titan?
Organic compounds can be found interstellar nebulae - Dinosaurs?

Look at it another way. Which scenario is more likely:

1 - Life spontaneously generates out of constituent elements forming organic chemistry, THEN decomposes to form "Fossil Fuels"
OR
2 - "Fossil fuels" exist for a LONG time before life spontaneously generates out of a rich broth of complex organic chemicals

I am betting on #2 (and the evidence supports it)
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