Porscheru Engine Choices, 2.2, 2.5, or 3.0 ?? Options

[R_u_dd]

Added a poll Here

Building a Porsche 914 with Subaru power and transmission Porscheru. Looking for a donor car with a 5mt transmission. I've considered many engine combos. The 2.0 wrx turbo is very popular for this build at 227 hp but I want NA power without the turbo lag. I've narrowed it down to these combos:

EJ22 99-2001 142 horsepower. Less power than I would like, but easy to find a car with a stick shift and fewer head gasket problems. Good potential for additional power. Strong motor.

SOHC 2.5 1990-2004 165 HP. This is a good power range for the lightweight 914 (2,400lbs). Easy electronics. The negative is frequent HG problems. The donor car is hard to find with a stick shift. If I buy a donor car with an automatic tranny, which 5mt will fit, just match the year?

EZ30D 2000-2003 212 HP. The donor car will need a tranny. Which should I buy?

So the big question is which donor would you buy and why? I don't want to buy individual parts if I can avoid it because it's much more expensive and the combinations might not work well together. Individual parts are about $2,000 but I think I can get a donor for around $1500.

[rnellums]

I went the EZ30D route. I bought parts piecemeal, which works well for the EZ30 beacuse all you really need from the donor is the engine and the harness. Transmission is not a huge deal because Subarus are like legos and any tranny fits any motor (pretty much).

I'm running a junkyard 5mt mated to mine with no issues but for two codes from the ECU for not having the auto plugged in, no effect on driveability however.

I would get the longest geared transmission you can find. I have a 4.11 final drive and revs are pretty high on the freeway.

The raw power is great, you will need to invest in a locking front diff for this powerplant. I have not yet and will spin one tire through third without it.

Downsides:
much more difficult to flip the manifold on than the 2.5's
not as easy to cool as the 2.5's (honestly not much of an issue though)
almost no aftermarket support
no good aftermarket headers (I just finished making a second set, my first set is yours for shipping if you want - posted in the classifieds


My view in hindsight: if you are going to go for the EZ30D, why not go for the EZ30R? marginally more work, you can find lower mileage motors, and a standalone ecu that can run the cams isn't THAT much more expensive, you get a bunch more power,and you won't have to spend 3 months combing through, weeding, and re-wiring the stock harness.

As a quick reference, I have spent ~5k on my conversion. 3k of that was offset by selling my old engine and transmission. I also spent about 1k too much for my engine.

most of the conversion parts are available from Coldwater914 and make everything pretty painless.

[R_u_dd]

Great info. Ian has info on the 30R and it sounds like the ECU is a problem. His sight is down right now, but it sounds like the engine mgt computer is about $2k, but that might not be a problem with a donor vehicle??

From Coldwater914: (See next post #4: This can be overcome.)

"I would rank this motor (EZ30D) highest in comparison to the other (suby 6) options in this category. Due to its more modern design and timing chain
(that does not need to be service for the life of the engine) it is smaller/lighter and more reliable than the eg33. On the other hand the ECU
on the EZ30D substantially less expensive than the EZ30R and EZ36R. However to clarify it does not have the VVT or AVCS of the later EZ’s."

How is it that the wiring is easier? Is that because you would buy an engine management system?

If I go this route, I may take you up on the muffler.

[rnellums]

Great info. Ian has info on the 30R and it sounds like the ECU is a problem. His sight is down right now, but it sounds like the engine mgt computer is about $2k, but that might not be a problem with a donor vehicle??

From Coldwater914:

"I would rank this motor (EZ30D) highest in comparison to the other (suby 6) options in this category. Due to its more modern design and timing chain
(that does not need to be service for the life of the engine) it is smaller/lighter and more reliable than the eg33. On the other hand the ECU
on the EZ30D substantially less expensive than the EZ30R and EZ36R. However to clarify it does not have the VVT or AVCS of the later EZ’s."

How is it that the wiring is easier? Is that because you would buy an engine management system?

If I go this route, I may take you up on the muffler.

I believe Ian wrote that a while ago. My understanding is there there are some aftermarklet options in the 1k range now.

An aftermarket ECU has fewer connectors to wire in and a few less sensors overall ( no knock sensors, rear O2, etc.)

I used the stock ECU on my conversion because I am most interested in driveability and reliability.

[gryphon68]

I would get the longest geared transmission you can find. I have a 4.11 final drive and revs are pretty high on the freeway.

The raw power is great, you will need to invest in a locking front diff for this powerplant. I have not yet and will spin one tire through third without it.

I believe the tallest 5MT final drive ratio available is the 2006/2007 WRX at 3.70.

I managed to find a 2006 with a ticking third gear for cheap, will probably go the "blueprinted" OBX limited slip diff route while it's open to fix the gears.

[AndyB]

Posted this in the Nasioc forum:

Building a Porsche 914 with Subaru power and transmission Porscheru. Looking for a donor car with a 5mt transmission. I've considered many engine combos. The 2.0 wrx turbo is very popular for this build at 227 hp but I want NA power without the turbo lag. I've narrowed it down to these combos:

EJ22 99-2001 142 horsepower. Less power than I would like, but easy to find a car with a stick shift and fewer head gasket problems. Good potential for additional power. Strong motor.

SOHC 2.5 1990-2004 165 HP. This is a good power range for the lightweight 914 (2,400lbs). Easy electronics. The negative is frequent HG problems. The donor car is hard to find with a stick shift. If I buy a donor car with an automatic tranny, which 5mt will fit, just match the year?

EZ30D 2000-2003 212 HP. The donor car will need a tranny. Which should I buy?

So the big question is which donor would you buy and why? I don't want to buy individual parts if I can avoid it because it's much more expensive and the combinations might not work well together. Individual parts are about $2,000 but I think I can get a donor for around $1500.

Ok this is what I did. I found an auto auction on line that represents us "normal" people. You go through pages and pages of subarus. Enter your criteria and then bid. My winning bid was $200 for a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport with a 2.5 NA. The rims are already sold. The doors are leaving soon so far the parts bought me flares. Once you rebuild the engine I don't see a need to worry about the HG. My .02 cents.

[brant]

Posted this in the Nasioc forum:

Building a Porsche 914 with Subaru power and transmission Porscheru. Looking for a donor car with a 5mt transmission. I've considered many engine combos. The 2.0 wrx turbo is very popular for this build at 227 hp but I want NA power without the turbo lag. I've narrowed it down to these combos:

EJ22 99-2001 142 horsepower. Less power than I would like, but easy to find a car with a stick shift and fewer head gasket problems. Good potential for additional power. Strong motor.

SOHC 2.5 1990-2004 165 HP. This is a good power range for the lightweight 914 (2,400lbs). Easy electronics. The negative is frequent HG problems. The donor car is hard to find with a stick shift. If I buy a donor car with an automatic tranny, which 5mt will fit, just match the year?

EZ30D 2000-2003 212 HP. The donor car will need a tranny. Which should I buy?

So the big question is which donor would you buy and why? I don't want to buy individual parts if I can avoid it because it's much more expensive and the combinations might not work well together. Individual parts are about $2,000 but I think I can get a donor for around $1500.

Ok this is what I did. I found an auto auction on line that represents us "normal" people. You go through pages and pages of subarus. Enter your criteria and then bid. My winning bid was $200 for a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport with a 2.5 NA. The rims are already sold. The doors are leaving soon so far the parts bought me flares. Once you rebuild the engine I don't see a need to worry about the HG. My .02 cents.

What auction site?

[Chris H.]

BIGKAT_83 has an EZ30R engine he was thinking about selling. I don't remember if he had the ECU and harness or not. The EZ30R is also more expensive because it is rare and a lot of the Subie guys want it. 250 hp in that compact engine would be pretty nice.

[R_u_dd]

Ok this is what I did. I found an auto auction on line that represents us "normal" people. You go through pages and pages of subarus. Enter your criteria and then bid. My winning bid was $200 for a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport with a 2.5 NA. The rims are already sold. The doors are leaving soon so far the parts bought me flares. Once you rebuild the engine I don't see a need to worry about the HG. My .02 cents.
[/quote]

This is the route I am trying to take. I am having trouble finding a vehicle with the stick shift at the right price. A $500 bid raises the price to $1,426 with shipping and all the fees. I can almost spec the individual parts for that price and not have to tear it apart.

[76-914]

Posted this in the Nasioc forum:

Building a Porsche 914 with Subaru power and transmission Porscheru. Looking for a donor car with a 5mt transmission. I've considered many engine combos. The 2.0 wrx turbo is very popular for this build at 227 hp but I want NA power without the turbo lag. I've narrowed it down to these combos:

EJ22 99-2001 142 horsepower. Less power than I would like, but easy to find a car with a stick shift and fewer head gasket problems. Good potential for additional power. Strong motor.

SOHC 2.5 1990-2004 165 HP. This is a good power range for the lightweight 914 (2,400lbs). Easy electronics. The negative is frequent HG problems. The donor car is hard to find with a stick shift. If I buy a donor car with an automatic tranny, which 5mt will fit, just match the year?

EZ30D 2000-2003 212 HP. The donor car will need a tranny. Which should I buy?

So the big question is which donor would you buy and why? I don't want to buy individual parts if I can avoid it because it's much more expensive and the combinations might not work well together. Individual parts are about $2,000 but I think I can get a donor for around $1500.

Ok this is what I did. I found an auto auction on line that represents us "normal" people. You go through pages and pages of subarus. Enter your criteria and then bid. My winning bid was $200 for a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport with a 2.5 NA. The rims are already sold. The doors are leaving soon so far the parts bought me flares. Once you rebuild the engine I don't see a need to worry about the HG. My .02 cents.

What auction site?

CoPart

[R_u_dd]

[/quote]


What auction site?


[/quote]


The auction site I use is Copart.com and for some areas, you need a representative bidder through autobidmaster.com

[AndyB]

Posted this in the Nasioc forum:

Building a Porsche 914 with Subaru power and transmission Porscheru. Looking for a donor car with a 5mt transmission. I've considered many engine combos. The 2.0 wrx turbo is very popular for this build at 227 hp but I want NA power without the turbo lag. I've narrowed it down to these combos:

EJ22 99-2001 142 horsepower. Less power than I would like, but easy to find a car with a stick shift and fewer head gasket problems. Good potential for additional power. Strong motor.

SOHC 2.5 1990-2004 165 HP. This is a good power range for the lightweight 914 (2,400lbs). Easy electronics. The negative is frequent HG problems. The donor car is hard to find with a stick shift. If I buy a donor car with an automatic tranny, which 5mt will fit, just match the year?

EZ30D 2000-2003 212 HP. The donor car will need a tranny. Which should I buy?

So the big question is which donor would you buy and why? I don't want to buy individual parts if I can avoid it because it's much more expensive and the combinations might not work well together. Individual parts are about $2,000 but I think I can get a donor for around $1500.

Ok this is what I did. I found an auto auction on line that represents us "normal" people. You go through pages and pages of subarus. Enter your criteria and then bid. My winning bid was $200 for a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport with a 2.5 NA. The rims are already sold. The doors are leaving soon so far the parts bought me flares. Once you rebuild the engine I don't see a need to worry about the HG. My .02 cents.

What auction site?

eRepairables.com was the site. When I start carving metal the Subaru will be in the pictures. Sadly the front end met Bambi and the insurance agency totaled it out. At some point I will get the salvage title not that I need it.

[DBCooper]

The Canbus electrics have made it impossible to use the later Subaru motors (2009 and newer, if I recall correctly) with the OEM ECU's. With Canbus you can't just peel out the whole wiring harness out and strip out unneeded sensors, you need it all, intact, with the fuel level sensors, auto trans info, etc. etc. So if it's Canbus it's been that you need an aftermarket ECU, using the OEM isn't really viable. Except that I just noticed on the Subarugears site they have a box that fakes all those other Canbus signals, so you can use the Subaru ECU. I could never sort out that mess of wiring, so for me an aftermarket ECU makes sense, but if you're after a nearly new engine and want to use the OEM ECU that box might make it viable. I don't know details, cost or anything, just noticed it.

Also, by the way, you DON'T have to have an ECU that controls the later AVCS valve system. An alternative is to install non-ACVS cams, meaning you can go hot-rod cams at the same time if you like. It's a slightly dumber engine without AVCS, but same peak torque and HP. So there's no particular need to stick with the older engine models, whether OEM or aftermarket ECU.

[OU8AVW]

I'm planning a Suby conversion on my '89 Westphalia. I spoke to CCR about a set up. They pull and rebuild the motors for you. They will also include all of what you need to make it run, wires, intake, ect. They will send the harness out to the builder of your choice or they had a guy who would do it. It was pretty pricey, but I'm not into tearing down a Subaru in my driveway and this might be a good option for me. I like the idea of getting a plug and play kit, fully rebuilt for this van.

http://ccrengines.com/

[AndyB]

I chose the self repair option. I am in no rush to finish my project. The only thing I am doing is getting a cam for the car and that is all for the internals. I will pony up the cash to get the entire engine rebuild kit and be done with it. With the auctions they are hit or miss. I was patient ( wife made me) and waited for the right car. Yes I paid a total of $554 with fees. If you have patients and are in no rush then this IMO is the way to go.

[mepstein]

I bought a running SVX for $500. For $100, I had my mechanic pull the engine. I still need to pull the harness but it's been too cold until recently. It's sitting in the back lot of the mechanic so my wife doesn't have to look at it.

[76-914]

The EZ30 is only 1.5" longer than the 2.5L 4 cyl. and slightly heavier. If buying from CoPart, search for "running" vehicles. 2 reasons; 1st you know it's a runner and 2nd, a running vehicle is cheaper to ship. I choose to shop the upper line model Legacy/Outback LL Bean model for my 6 because I figured this model was likely to have been "well cared for".

[effutuo101]

2004 2.5L NA motor would be an easy fix and install. Computer and harness would run about 1000.
Super chargers are now avaliable if you need more power.

[gryphon68]

BIGKAT_83 has an EZ30R engine he was thinking about selling. I don't remember if he had the ECU and harness or not. The EZ30R is also more expensive because it is rare and a lot of the Subie guys want it. 250 hp in that compact engine would be pretty nice.

I could be wrong, but I believe BigKat is running an EZ30D with a Megasquirt.
He may also own an EZ30R engine, but don't think it's running in a car.

The EZ30R probably has more potential, with three individual exhaust ports per cylinder head, but has several difficult to tame features such as drive-by-wire throttle body and variable can timing which significantly reduces aftermarket ECU choices.

[Chris H.]

Right, the engine in his car is an EZ30D (the car is also for sale, complete WITH EZ30D, unless he's sold it by now). He also has an EZ30R engine (not installed in a car) that he is considering parting with to pay for his new Camaro project. I don't recall if he has the ECU and harness or not but he definitely had the motor last time I visited. I can't imagine what the R engine would be like if the D has 212 HP. His car is fast.