Still leaking oil after 3rd engine drop, Source? Options

[Wew]

Hi all,

I have posted several times on this forum regarding my engine and transmission rebuild.

Thanks to Ian Karr's video on valve train geometry it really helped me visualize what exactly needed to be done in order to get everything lined up and adjusted properly.
Haven't done it yea, but the engine is dropped and ready to tackle this project.

My big concern is my inability to stop this oil leak which is present on both sides on the engine.

I bought the extra thick cork valve cover gaskets from 914 rubber.

Based on the images could anyone deduce the source of the problem and a once and for all remedy?

Same with the push rod tubes. Are there any oil leak proof pushrod tubes and seals that can keep the oil leaks from sneaking back?

The engine rebuild probably has 20 miles on it as due to the oil leaks and a terrible valve train geometry job done by a local volkswagen shop. These things prompted me to drop the motor and redo things.

Oil pressure sensor leak resolved. Oil cooler seals are good and no leaks.

The oil you see in the images, and some drips from the pushrod tubes, which could be from above and also on the heat exchangers streaks of oil coming down them from the engine.

It also have noticed oil in the exhaust to muffler gaskets. Is this normal, if not what would that cause and remedy be?

Thanks a bunch, I know I have a lot of questions but I would really prefer once and for all to address these issues.

Thanks,

Gary

[Superhawk996]

Have you done a leakdown check on the engine?

I notice you have the head breather tubes plugged.

If you have high leakdown into the case, you're going to end up with leaks, especially so if you have breathers plugged. Not saying this is your problem but sure wouldn't hurt to check.

[Wew]

Have you done a leakdown check on the engine?

I notice you have the head breather tubes plugged.

If you have high leakdown into the case, you're going to end up with leaks, especially so if you have breathers plugged. Not saying this is your problem but sure wouldn't hurt to check.

Hi Super,

Thanks for the response. I purchased the new heads new when I did my rebuild. No breather tubes in them.

I had to add a later style style air cleaner along with the oil filler with the bigger vent line.

I did a bottom up rebuild on this engine and it has 20 miles on it so far. I did put a performance camshaft in it that was within spec of doing zero mods to a fuel injected engine. allegedly....
Thanks again for the input.

I have not done a leak down test on the motor yet.

Gary

[Shivers]

I agree with SH above...I'm not familiar with this engine build. Heads look ported, so maybe a performance build. If you were out driving it like I would, there can be more oil than normal sloshed down the PR tubes and into the valve rocker area. With a higher compression, the engine can develop enough crank case pressure to bypass the valve cover gasket. I've seen some rubber gaskets

[flyer86d]

It’s odd that there is oil on top of the head. Did the valve cover gasket slip down?

Charlie

[iankarr]

I agree...odd. Glad the video was helpful. Curious...how did you know the VW shop incorectly set your valve geometry?

As for the pushrod tubes and seals...they're all leak proof (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif). They just need to be installed properly. The bores need to be hostpital clean, the tubes need to be round, and the seals need to be intact. And there isn't much room for error. Viton seals are generally thought of to be the best. I used some teflon sealant around the seals on the head side and plain old motor oil on the case side. Make sure the seals don't tear on the way in.

You should also check the oil pressure sender area on top of the case, near the distributor. Oil leaking from there can end up in all kinds of places.

Is the "VW" upside down or right side up on your (installed) valve covers. Jake Raby says the VW should be upsdide down and he knows a thing or three.

You'll get this sorted, I'm sure...

[Wew]

I agree...odd. Glad the video was helpful. Curious...how did you know the VW shop incorectly set your valve geometry?
He said he does things by eye on the vw's and that once you get the length for one you got it. I had my suspicions but the shop has been around a long time. Once I started the car for the first time on valve was so loose it was clacking like crazy. I dropped the motor that time and reset to zero lash. Went over them all for good measure and there were some serious gaps. I ordered new pushrods and got the spacers from your guy Ian, so I am going to follow your process. I am wondering if my Valve covers are warped or not perfectly flat.

As for the pushrod tubes and seals...they're all leak proof (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif). They just need to be installed properly. The bores need to be hospital clean, the tubes need to be round, and the seals need to be intact. And there isn't much room for error. Viton seals are generally thought of to be the best. I used some teflon sealant around the seals on the head side and plain old motor oil on the case side. Make sure the seals don't tear on the way in.
I will definitely be re-sealing them.

You should also check the oil pressure sender area on top of the case, near the distributor. Oil leaking from there can end up in all kinds of places.
I have checked this and had it rethreaded and can confirm there are no leaks from that location. Motor is dry on the top.

Is the "VW" upside down or right side up on your (installed) valve covers. Jake Raby says the VW should be upside down and he knows a thing or three.
I will double check that but I believe yes. Oops one side upside down and the other right side up. Both sides leak.

You'll get this sorted, I'm sure...

Fingers crossed!

Thanks Ian!

[windforfun]

You might want to talk to Tony at Euro Quatro in Mtn. View. He's knows his shit. He may have retired by now.

[Wew]

You might want to talk to Tony at Euro Quatro in Mtn. View. He's knows his shit. He may have retired by now.

Thanks for the lead, Wind.

[914Mels]

Seeing as your heads are very clean and dry other than around the valve cover, it pretty much has to be coming from there. There isn't any other oil source that far out on the engine. The top picture shows the valve cover upside down from previous use, you can see the paint scraped away where the bale drags across, the scrape would be downwards, not up towards the intake. You can tighten the bales by bending the ends in a bit if they don't feel like their really snapping into place. Once the valve covers are on, I take a screwdriver and pry the cover down slightly to make sure the edge isn't hung up on the sealing surface. I love the smell of hot oil keeping my heater boxes from rusting!

[Wew]

I think I am going to purchase two new valve covers if I can find them. I have seen the aftermarket stainless look type.
Any recommendations or experiences with either.
Seems like all the originals are used and I may end up with what I already got.

Thanks for weighing in.

Ps Ian, one side up one side down. I updated my note to your questions.

[Wew]

Seeing as your heads are very clean and dry other than around the valve cover, it pretty much has to be coming from there. There isn't any other oil source that far out on the engine. The top picture shows the valve cover upside down from previous use, you can see the paint scraped away where the bale drags across, the scrape would be downwards, not up towards the intake. You can tighten the bales by bending the ends in a bit if they don't feel like their really snapping into place. Once the valve covers are on, I take a screwdriver and pry the cover down slightly to make sure the edge isn't hung up on the sealing surface. I love the smell of hot oil keeping my heater boxes from rusting!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Robarabian]

I'm going back to the plugs in the head vents. European Motor Works can sell you the vent hose fittings, or you can source them local. Run them to a breather box or route to the air cleaner. There is pressure building up causing oil to find a path outward, likely through the valve covers.

[Rand]

There are only so many places oil can leak from. Keep on. Start from the source potential and work your way out.

We've had talk to no end about valve cover gaskets and such. Ugh, that would be easy. Wait.... can it be easy? Think about the flow. Where else?

[Wew]

Thanks for the input everyone.
I purchased a used set of valve covers on ebay.
I am going to use the method that was written up on pelican where 24 gauge 5/8 steel strips are tack welded around the interior to create a lip so the cork gaskets can't get sucked in. I have read this has helped solved many valve cover leak problems.
If that doesn't work then next step is to look into venting the heads. Hope to avoid that as Jake Raby has stated this should not be necessary.
One step at a time.
Thanks all for the input.
I will report back as I go through the valve cover process.