914 Windshield inside OEM Glass Sticker logo?, Anyone making these OEM Windshield Mfg. Stickers Options

[TJB/914]

Looking for help if anyone makes these OEM Windshield Sticker's?
Are they different for every model year?
Many years ago while restoring my 914 I used a solvent to clean up the windshield glass & destroyed the letters. I would like one for my OEM original windshield (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
This is off as recent 1976 in a local shop for repairs in this photo.
Tom Michigan

[SteveL]

Pretty sure That is a stamp, not a sticker

[JeffBowlsby]

^^^agree. Not a sticker.

[rick 918-S]

I thought OEM was sigla.and it is etched in the glass not a sticker.

[TJB/914]

Pretty sure That is a stamp, not a sticker

Steve,
It's not factory stamped, it's a thin clear see through logo sticker with white letters about 4"x4".
I pealed mine off using a razor blade to peal it off (Glued to the glass).
Tom

[TJB/914]

I thought OEM was sigla.and it is etched in the glass not a sticker.

Rick,
Yes Sigla glass stamped by the glass factory is correct, but this is a peal off sticker. I'll do more checking and report back.
Tom

[TJB/914]

I thought OEM was sigla.and it is etched in the glass not a sticker.

Rick,
Yes Sigla glass stamped by the glass factory is correct, but this is a peal off sticker. I'll do more checking and report back.
Tom

[vitamin914]

I was a tooling engineer at PPG in the late 80s. Those marking are required by law on any safety glass, laminated or tempered, used in vehicles. FMVSS 205 is the standard for US vehicles. Europe has slightly different requirements.

The trademark gives the manufacturer (DOT registration number), the factory (if they had more than one), the date of manufacture (month and year) and the composition of the glass (M number - referencing glass, thickness, color, laminated or tempered). The AS marking gives its intended vision area AS1, AS2, AS3 etc. They must be permanent markings so they cannot be removed by cleaning.

The trademarks are applied by sandblasting if the glass is already bent, fired-on ceramic stamping, or fired-on ceramic silk screening (especially if the glass has a black paint band or a heated circuit).

Every manufactures codes vary including the date code. For PPG (now PGW) the year was in the text and the month was the addition of the numbers 1 2 4 8. By blocking out the appropriate number on the silk screen you could come up with the correct month. Block out the 1 and the 4 leaving 2 and 8, would give 10 for October. Sometimes they would cheat to save making a new silk screen in January (since the year code would need to be changed) and make the numbers add up to 13. Other manufacturers use letter codes. It isn't intended to be a precise date down to the day.

Sometimes auto companies add stuff (bar code data) for robots to identify the glass prior to installation. They also can add logos or certifications for various countries.

Some useless trivia...

[JeffBowlsby]

Interesting. Can you decipher the date or date code from the first photo above?

[wonkipop]

I thought OEM was sigla.and it is etched in the glass not a sticker.

Rick,
Yes Sigla glass stamped by the glass factory is correct, but this is a peal off sticker. I'll do more checking and report back.
Tom

interesting.

original screen in mine. never been replaced.
does not have the audi rings like @TJB/914
just VW insignia. no mention of sigla either.
its a jan 74 build.

all the other letters codes are same as TJB/914




side glass is the same
just VW insignia




same with rear glass. different codes. but only VW insig.

i have a spare screen in its box still that i picked up in 90 from porsche in USA.
shipped it back with the car. would be genuine but manufactured at later date?
never taken a close look at markings apart from confirming it was completely clear.
(as was required by law in aus back then).
i'd have to pull it out and unbox it to see what was on that.


ps - sekurit is a brand name for automotive glass divsion of saint-gobain.
pretty much the best glass makers in the world.
though other glass companies would probably argue.
its interesting that the windscreen does not have sekurit branding.
a lot of the original parts in 914s did not have the manufacturer branding, but were stamped VW even if made by an external supplier. exhaust mufflers originally for instance just were given a VW stamp. often the replacement parts carry the manufacturer branding. its a fuzzy area.

[wonkipop]

ok - did some googling as i am always curious.

kinonglas is the manufacturer of the windscreens.
and kristall F/F HI might be the trademark name of the clear laminated glass.
(if the info i found is right - from an early 911 forum).

they were bought out by saint gobain, so a division of s g as per sekurit.
though no certain they were bought out by early 70s.
had the technical set up to do laminated windscreens. speciality item.
sekurit another factory doing flat/flatish glass. probably just toughened.

certainly sigla did windscreens originally for mercedes and porsche (for early 911s) but possibly by some stage in the early 70s saint gobain was supplying all the glass for 914s at karmann?

so it could all be S G glass in my 74 built in jan 74.
getting curious enough to carefully pull out my spare screen.

[wonkipop]

Interesting. Can you decipher the date or date code from the first photo above?

i don't reckon they had date codes back then mr. b.

given that first example is a 76 and i have a 74 and all the numbers/codes are the same.

probably later bureaucratic requirement.
maybe for the purposes of recalls in case a particular batch of screens is found to be defective and they have to go looking for them.

[Mikey914]

It's like a tempering bug. It's a frit stamp that's baked on the glass. Not a sticker.

[TJB/914]

Interesting 914 factory information.
I am cleaning up original remarks after investigating my restoration file. When I started my restoration 20+ years ago the windshield was factory OEM with the photo logo
I then replaced it with new glass from the Porsche dealer OEM factory replacement. It did not have the Sigla/Sekurit stamping, just factory Porsche Sigla parts replacement listed on the order forms.
Back 20+ years ago I spent over $15K+ on every 914 part that was available from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) the Porsche dealer in Ann Arbor, MI. 914 stuff was available whatever was needed.
Now we know the real story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) as we become 356ers.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)
When I had my 914 at 2013 PCA Parade the judges told me it's not real OEM unless it's there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Tom

[wonkipop]

Interesting 914 factory information.
I am cleaning up original remarks after investigating my restoration file. When I started my restoration 20+ years ago the windshield was factory OEM with the photo logo
I then replaced it with new glass from the Porsche dealer OEM factory replacement. It did not have the Sigla/Sekurit stamping, just factory Porsche Sigla parts replacement listed on the order forms.
Back 20+ years ago I spent over $15K+ on every 914 part that was available from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) the Porsche dealer in Ann Arbor, MI. 914 stuff was available whatever was needed.
Now we know the real story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) as we become 356ers.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)
When I had my 914 at 2013 PCA Parade the judges told me it's not real OEM unless it's there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Tom

down here i've stood around and listened to those judges types drinking beers on other occasions outside porsche or 356 club events. most of them are bullshit artists.
why i never go near the whole concourse parade scene.

f#ckers pissed me off back in the 90s when i drove to some 356 do one sunday just to have a look at the old cars. the prick at the gate told me to make sure i parked my car nowhere the event. i was in the 914. idiots if you ask me. mostly peddling bs they make up along the way. once upon a time you had no way to argue with the clowns.
it was all an act and their knowledge was just accumulated here-say.

these days with the internet and a website like this you can really get to the bottom of things. this website is the best thing around and the folks here have access to so much info you can really get to the bottom of things if that is your interest or determination.

eg. we would never have cracked the 1.8 L Jet info even 10 years ago.
but now you can accumulate enough data from folks you can work out what really went down instead of somebody just pontificating and bluffing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[JeffBowlsby]

The ziggy-zaggy line is the Sigla logo.

[wonkipop]

The ziggy-zaggy line is the Sigla logo.

just to throw things.
what about this then?
from the L jet files.

a may/74 1.8 with the sigla logo. looks like its top of the screen.
was from a very original but very down car.
has oscilloscope wiggle logo just like kinoglas.
wiggle something else?




a may/74 1.8 in very good/excellent original condition. low miles it was claimed.
identical to my jan/74. numbers code etc. (except its D-290, not D-226)




3 possibilities.
one or the other are replacement screens. sigla maybe?
or/
sigla handled tinted screens?
or multiple original suppliers.

---

here is a 73 1.7 for a bonus.
in good original condition.
similar to 74 but has some different numbers going down.





worse than the ECA/B mysteries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby .

i have a feeling (hunch) but could be wrong that the wiggle line and the number means a value for light transmission.

i'll try googling it and see what i can find out.

i believe that sigla and st. gobain (kinoglas) were not related companies.
but i could be wrong about that too.
you never know the way companies were gradually being transformed by takeovers in the post war era.


EDIT
i did once have to get right into this about 30 years ago.
but i have forgotten the whole thing.
aus windscreen regs when i put the car on the road here were nuts strict.
a lot more different standards of screens were tolerated in the USA.
and all the markings on USA screens are USA market.
there was some trip up about my screen lacking a British Standards mark.
but i got it through in the end because some "expert" at the registration board hauled out his book of international standards and confirmed it kosher.
there was a lot of talk and discussion about light transmission value.
aus screens were ZERO tint by regulation.

[wonkipop]

here is how you tell who made the windscreen.
its the DOT number.
Dept. of Transport assigned manufacturer's DOT numbers back in the late 60s and kept a list.

https://www.carwindshields.info/dot_db


DOT 31 has disappeared off the list.
presumably because kinonglas was aquired by st. gobain sometime in the 70s after those 914 windscreens were manufactured.

interestingly a lot of sigla windscreens have the DOT 25 number.
this is assigned to flachglas gmbh.
flachglas is the name of the german company who made sigla.
it would appear it might still exist as a DOT number. its on the list.

https://www.flachglas.de/en/company/history/

no relation to kinonglas, sekurit or st. gobain.

st. gobain (sekurit) retain the usa DOT 27 number but its for the german factory.
the italian factory is DOT 37. the french factory is DOT 39 - i think DOT numbers go even further, they identify not just companies but either particular factories or particular divisions in countries.
presumably DOT 31 was retired and DOT 27 took over once st. gobain acquired kinonglas.

thats how you work out the manufacturer.
DOT number is a usa requirement but a lot of screens have it whether sold in cars in USA or not, even today. my renault clio has a DOT number on it. not a car that was even sold in the USA. its a 2002 model with a DOT 39, means its french french and french.

-------

but i can find out zero on the wiggly line and the plain D number that is usually near it.
narthing. but both sigla windscreens and kinonglas had it and the companies are entirely separate. were back then and still are today. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
i think that symbol was particular to germany and meant something.
might have stood for laminated? interlayer. who knows. but there is no trace of info on it anywhere that i can find doing all sorts of searches. my usual go to places are mercedes forums and speciality sites. they often have this obscure stuff. no luck.

i did come across a mercedes benz from the 70s on an image search with an almost identical marking layout to the kinonglas 914 screens except it was made by sudglas.
This was DOT 30 and has also disappeared off the DOT list today. presumably sudglas was acquired by another company and absorbed. also had the wiggle line.



the weird logo in the sudglas screen is not a company logo.
its the british standards marking.
a lot of euro market cars carried it.
a lot of aussie cars had it too back in those days.
likely never on USA car windscreens.

conclusion.
a porsche could have either a sigla or a "st. gobain/st. gobain absorbed company" screen in it from factory. there won't necessarily be a logo. original factory installed screens more than likely just had the car brand on it. though maybe porsche did not do that.
mercedes and VW did. later replacement screens might have had the glass company logo and not the car brand logo. but the screens could be either.
the vast majority of VW screens would appear to have been "st. gobain".
914s were built by VW essentially. probably copped the st. gobain most of the time.
but a replacement screen could certainly have been a sigla. they would have been in the OEM supplier loop and could easily have made them too.

[wonkipop]

amusing bonus digging around on kraut glass.
its real hot here today. hiding inside from the UV bombardment.
its intense outside. feel like i'm getting sunburnt just going to pick up a slab from the bottle shop. hope it cools off so i can crack out the 914 for a run.
still quiet on the roads around here. everyone has left town.

on left merc screen.
on right screen on my 914.

all the numbers on the DOT line identical.
wiggle and D number identical.
ones got a merc logo ones a VW.
both kinonglass.
both match TJB/914's original photo of a 76.



kinonglas had been around for a long time before they got swallowed.




and here is some merc screen with an interesting label overlay.
must date from around the time sekurit swallowed them having been swallowed by st. gobain.