WTB Early 1.7L Case Options

[JimVG]

Looking for an early virgin 1.7L engine case with no previous non-factory machine work or damage/repairs.

[bdstone914]

Looking for an early virgin 1.7L engine case with no previous non-factory machine work or damage/repairs.

You want the one with no windage tray?
And thicker web between the cylinders?

[JimVG]

Looking for an early virgin 1.7L engine case with no previous non-factory machine work or damage/repairs.

You want the one with no windage tray?
And thicker web between the cylinders?

That is correct, per Jake Raby.

[technicalninja]

Don't shortchange yourself.

Having a windage tray is CRITICAL to all engines except stationary ones.

I purchased an early 2.0L core engine from 914sixer. GA003773

It has all of the later "upgrades" and the thicker cylinder bases.

If you have a solution for a windage tray, Great!

The VW one is crude.

A good windage tray will have one direction trap doors to "lock in" an amount of oil around the pickup.

The thicker cylinder registers improve reliability.

The windage tray both improves reliability AND increases power (especially in high G turns).

I'd bet Raby has designed his own windage tray.

I'd expect 2 to 4 little, tiny doors in it...

[Montreal914]

I purchased an early 2.0L core engine from 914sixer. GA003773

It has all of the later "upgrades" and the thicker cylinder bases.

@technicalninja Care to explain this part in bold in your comment above? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

GA blocks do not have the full thickness under the cylinder registers like the early “W” blocks have. There is a recess in the GA and other cases whereas the “W” cases are full thickness (no recess), making them more desirable.

[technicalninja]

I don't have a W block to compare my cases with.

I watched his video on blocks and when he got to the section about register thickness mine does NOT have the depression like the GC blocks he showed.

The casting directly in this area is flat on my GA. The less desirable blocks seemed to have a depression in this area.

Maybe the Ws are even thicker at this point.

This is the video in question.

https://www.facebook.com/aircooledtech/vide...25229148506432/

My GA block looks like the 1.7 case at the 3:00 minute mark.

It does not look like the GC show at 3:55.

I just used a caliper on my block. It is 30mm think at the center point between the bores. I do not believe it's been machined before.
It "looks" the same thickness as his W block at the 3-minute point.

I remember watching his video and thinking "missed a bullet there that I wasn't aware of".

[JimVG]

Thank you all for the information. The Jake Raby YouTube video is titled “The Tale of Three Crankcases”. I believe that there is some confusion here. Jake uses the word “windage” when referencing the recessed area between the cylinder bores of the later 1.7 and 2.0 cases. It’s not an actual “windage tray” that is actually an oil baffle. As I understand it, those were only available in the later 2.0’s. The early “W0” 1.7’s do not have the recess in that area referenced as a “register”.

[technicalninja]

VW created the depression that we are talking about to IMPROVE windage between cylinders.

This is a common problem and even the first GM LS1 blocks needed a mod like this. The "new" block was (internally to GM) called the LS4.

The windage "tray" is the piece of metal that separates the oil portion of the crankcase from the rotating assembly.

I watched his Vid again and this time I was more interested in the W blocks. It appears that the W blocks may have the registers for this cover already cast in.

One thing I noticed in his video is the big holes (two) into the sides of the "oil tower". All of the cases had them and he doesn't mention them at all.

These look like crankcase ventilation holes to me.
They are large enough to vent a big block Chevy through.

He spoke of having NO blowby due to Nickies and good engine building but it looks like he has MONSTER ventilation in my book...

The tray is important to keep the oil from riding up into the rotating assembly.
If the oil gets up into the rotating assembly, it gets "frothed up" and has a shitload of air in it. It immediately saps power as well.

Smokey Yunick did a bunch of early NASCAR testing and proved the value of windage trays.
During hard acceleration the tray was worth up to 50 hp and it kept the air out of the oil.
So, more power AND improved reliability with almost no downside...

[Montreal914]

@technicalninja : I guess you lucked out on your GA engine block because mine is per video description and has the backside of the register thinner in the narrow area. See picture below:




Now the "W" case look like this as shown in the video and yes the constant thickness of the register area seems to be about 29-30mm. Below is a picture of the register backside and thickness measurement. Unfortunately for the OP, this block is now sold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)






Hopefully the OP will find what he is looking for and these pictures can help!

GLWTS! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JimVG]

A sincere thanks for the clarification! You both have confirmed what I understood from the video. I am an old “hot rodder”, and have a lifetime of experience with both small and big block Chevrolet engines. This is my first Porsche, and I want to start with the best case applicable to a performance build. I am learning. Your experience, knowledge, time and consideration is appreciated!

[peteyd]

I have this case I can sell you. send me a PM for pricing




Pete

[JimVG]

I have this case I can sell you. send me a PM for pricing




Pete

Thanks, Pete. PM sent.

[Jack Standz]

Just to add one more piece to this discussion.

We have three 1.7 cases, two are "W" cases. Can't check them right now, but at least one of the "W" cases has a provision for a windage tray, without the reduced area below the deck/cylinder register area apparently designed to increase windage.

Haven't invested any thought into it yet, but maybe someone has designed a scraper that improves windage by "scrapping" oil off the crankshaft? Probably worth some HP. But, wouldn't think worth the trouble for a street driven car.

[Driver174]

Following this as I just assembled a race engine using a "W" case without a windage tray, and it does not have a dry sump, only a tuna can.

Am I going to have issues in high G corners?

[technicalninja]

Following this as I just assembled a race engine using a "W" case without a windage tray, and it does not have a dry sump, only a tuna can.

Am I going to have issues in high G corners?

Maybe...

One thing I'd add to ANY wet sump competition car is an Accusump.

This will give you 30-60 seconds more "Oh Shit" time before damage.

I'd want my MAIN pressure reading directly past the oil pump.

I DON"T like mechanical gauges (due to hot oil in passenger compartment) but on a competition car I'd DEMAND a mechanical gauge and if that puppy "flickered" during long sweepers I'd be adding a windage tray (a custom one in the case of the T4).

I'd want my Accusump connected to the oil system as far away from the first pressure sensor as possible. If both critters are close, you won't see the "Reaper".

I spec at least two pressure sensors for a competition oil system. The secondary ones have always been electrics for me.

Modern sensors are available that report both pressure and temperature. 

Oil control and temperatures are one of the most important things to upgrade for combat roles in my book.

Another NICE thing about the Accusump is the fact that you can pressurize the oil system BEFORE the crank rotates.
That ALONE is very valuable to me.

[JimVG]

Following this as I just assembled a race engine using a "W" case without a windage tray, and it does not have a dry sump, only a tuna can.

Am I going to have issues in high G corners?

Maybe...

One thing I'd add to ANY wet sump competition car is an Accusump.

This will give you 30-60 seconds more "Oh Shit" time before damage.

I'd want my MAIN pressure reading directly past the oil pump.

I DON"T like mechanical gauges (due to hot oil in passenger compartment) but on a competition car I'd DEMAND a mechanical gauge and if that puppy "flickered" during long sweepers I'd be adding a windage tray (a custom one in the case of the T4).

I'd want my Accusump connected to the oil system as far away from the first pressure sensor as possible. If both critters are close, you won't see the "Reaper".

I spec at least two pressure sensors for a competition oil system. The secondary ones have always been electrics for me.

Modern sensors are available that report both pressure and temperature. 

Oil control and temperatures are one of the most important things to upgrade for combat roles in my book.

Another NICE thing about the Accusump is the fact that you can pressurize the oil system BEFORE the crank rotates.
That ALONE is very valuable to me.

Thanks for the input!

[Jack Standz]

I agree with the ninja and would add the following.

To prevent oil slosh or surge, it's probably best to run with the "windage tray" installed. So, maybe reconsider your motor and whether you should run with one (for those cases that have this capability).

Consider modifying the windage tray and/or the pushrod tubes to conteract oil slosh where oil builds up in the heads while allowing quick return of oil to the sump. Does the "windage tray" actually have a meaningful affect on windage or is it more there to counteract oil slosh/surge" (it's below the cam and crank)?

Might also want to consider adding a deep sump versus the tuna can.

Take a look at this post, paying particular attention to NASkeet:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265383

[technicalninja]

NASkeet's has his shit together!

And he's right, I am after the anti-slosh attributes, not true "windage".

True windage tray is not possible in a VW air-cooled, cam crap is in the way.

I ABSOLUTELY love the extended sumps over the tuna can!

Only problem is the application...

The 914 makes that extended sump an "auto-suicide" device.

Anything that goes under your car WILL hit that puppy and if it holes it, the engine dies.

It can affect everyone behind you as well.

Want to be the most hated person in a vintage race?

Take out half the grid with your oil slick! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)


And I'm with most of the folks in that thread, VW buses don't really need an anti-slosh tray!

1G sideways would be TERRIFING in a bus, it's SOP in a 914...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[friethmiller]

I have/had two 1.7 crankcases. One, which was a “W” block that I kept another was an EA block I gave to a buddy. I was over at his house the other day and decided to check the registers on his block. They are thick like the “W” blocks. Didn’t check for a windage tray but was surprised that there was no relief cut.

[Rick1952]

If you still need a "W", I have W0148063, which is a 1972 80hp with 8.2:1 compression. block, crank, rods.

Richard


Just split the case--have the same as the "GA" block as shown by Montreal914 Not what you are asking for.